Live data from Hacker News

Coup attempt underway in Turkey

theatlantic.com

41–50 of 375 posts

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#41
post #19
post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

Its not even clear yet who the sides are. Erdoğan released a statement that Gülen supporters (a religious group) were behind the coup, while the military seems to be claiming it is a secular coup, and has not named a leader behind it.

Lots of background in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12104221

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan used the Gulen movement as allies to gain power. However, once in power, Erdogan turned on Gulen, attempted to purge his followers from the police and judiciary, then used the movement as a "fifth-column" type scapegoat.

secularism in Turkey was born at the point of a bayonet. [..] Turkey's government is both secular and democratic, due to the founding father of Turkey, Kemal Ataturk. While Ataturk was a brutal dictator, he also used that power to rebuild a Turkish national identity, secularize the government, and eventually transition to democracy.

As many news sources have pointed out, the military sees itself as safeguarding the vision and (secular) state structure of Ataturk, and regularly purges the government when its leaders violate Ataturk's premise.

So it is most likely that the coup is secular in nature, and it is Erdogan's spin that is blaming Gulen.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#42

Does anyone have an explanation, or a link to an explanation for all the happenings in Turkey? I'm an occasional follower of this kind of stuff, but it would be great to understand the full situation in Turkey in an easily digestible way. 1. The current coup 2. The president's history 3. The different terrorist groups operating within the country and their beliefs and goals 4. Turkey's legal system and freedoms allow…

Additionally I wonder how bloody (vs. clean) past coups have been; seeing videos of civilians under fire, so this doesn't seem to be the most benevolent of coups.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#43
post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

The U.S. separation of power is based on similar ideas. Congress makes laws on a day-by-day basis, but when the will of the people contradicts certain fundamental principles enshrined in the Constitution, the courts have a right to strike down and nullify laws.

the courts have a right to strike down and nullify laws.

And, at least theoretically, the military oath to defend the constitution could require them to overthrow a government which does not conform to the constitution.

In practice, of course, issues are likely to be resolved before they reach that point.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#44
post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

It's how Thailand is run...

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#45
post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

I wouldn't be so sure about Erdogan losing power. Erdogan has an extreme amount of support within the country not just from the people but from the Turkish intelligence services & military aswell. A lot of people have elevated him to the same level as Ataturk. I'm about 80% sure Erdogan will manage to retain power from just what I know about Turkish politics - which isn't a lot to be honest. Early days right now but…

That would explain why the military just bombed the intelligence HQ...

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#46
It is bad that a (mostly) democratic elected government is (tried to be) removed this way. This will make it really difficult to work with whoever is in power, internationally.

But Erdogan forced this on the military. They were told to stand down against ISIS and to fight a new impossible-to-win fight against the kurdish minority.

I really hope the situation will somehow calm down. Otherwise we could have a new civil war at our hands, forcing more people to cross (those stupid) national borders to find safety.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#47
Mods: Why do you delete news posts like this one? I understand you're trying to keep Hacker News tech/business/science focused, maybe, but don't you think major world events that are getting tons of interest should be allowed to float up to the front page on their own merit? If the users are interested in it, why is it being deleted?

I feel like major events like yesterday's massacre in Nice or today coup d'état merit the attention.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#48
post #23
post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Ut semper, supercustodes.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so sure about Erdogan losing power. Erdogan has an extreme amount of support within the country not just from the people but from the Turkish intelligence services & military aswell. A lot of people have elevated him to the same level as Ataturk. I'm about 80% sure Erdogan will manage to retain power from just what I know about Turkish politics - which isn't a lot to be honest. Early days right now but…

Tangential, but why do people support Erdogan? From what I hear he's a terrible leader and moving towards a full dictatorship.

Economic improvement. Under Erdogan, Turkey has gotten considerably richer, no particular thanks to him but the same tide that lifts a farmer out of poverty keeps his islamic government afloat while making a mockery of Ataturk.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#50
post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

>A democratic arm that rules the country day-to-day, and a "benevolent dictatorship" that will overthrow the democratic arm if it violates the country's "fundamental principles"

Sounds a lot like Iran, although their "democratic arm" is very much a farce.

Post reply on HN