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Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

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Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#251

Post by tajen »

obj-g wrote: post #195
tajen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is USA better? It is attempting to face the tragedy and stop the killing. Is America attempting to stop the killing? I must have missed a chapter. Last time I've checked Obama was mourning the police officers who were killed and no national mourning was declared for the 500-600 corpses left by the police. And last time I've checked there is also still no trial for which Arabs get to die in Middle East under dro…

No national mourning has been declared for "500-600 corpses" because we don't mourn criminals, thugs, people who reach for guns when confronted by police, people who resist arrest, etc. You act as if the police did a raid on Google and pulled all the black employees out and shot them execution style. That sort of thing is definitely not happening.

> because we don't mourn criminals, thugs, people who reach for guns when confronted by police

1. 1 in 3 black people killed by police in 2015 were identified as unarmed [1].

2. In the current example, the black victim didn't resist arrest.

3. Those 500-600 weren't criminals, because you can only say they're "criminal" after a fair trial (oh, sorry, that's something to do with "human rights", if only you could understand what that means).

4. "Not mourning criminals" or not treating them as humans is the primary reason why USA is not compliant with human rights. The reason why it is important to treat assumed criminals as humans is in my point #5.

5. The reason why people resist arrests is because they have absolutely no trust that the judiciary system will judge them fairly. Today, an innocent would rather die than enter the judiciary system [2].

[1] http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/

[2] Innocents are cornered into plea bargain, which is 90% of the criminal cases in USA - It means for 90% criminal cases, there was no formal proof that the accused was guilty. I know, they're black, male, muscular and poor, right!? But that doesn't mean they're guilty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain

So, once again, you "don't mourn criminals, thugs and people who reach for guns when confronted by police", except you ought to mourn the innocent, the weak and the people who are mugged by police, and you should do that because the police also does it to white people, and you have even fewer organizations to defend against that.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#252

Post by yardie »

obj-g wrote: post #195
tajen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is USA better? It is attempting to face the tragedy and stop the killing. Is America attempting to stop the killing? I must have missed a chapter. Last time I've checked Obama was mourning the police officers who were killed and no national mourning was declared for the 500-600 corpses left by the police. And last time I've checked there is also still no trial for which Arabs get to die in Middle East under dro…

No national mourning has been declared for "500-600 corpses" because we don't mourn criminals, thugs, people who reach for guns when confronted by police, people who resist arrest, etc. You act as if the police did a raid on Google and pulled all the black employees out and shot them execution style. That sort of thing is definitely not happening.

Is resisting arrest an executable offense? That is certainly needs to me.

No, not really. I'm black so I know they're are 2 justice systems in the US.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#253

Post by yardie »

douche wrote: post #202
pedalpete wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, let's look at this on an even playing field, which should be very doable with the atrocities befalling the US and somewhat indiscriminate killing of African Americans. Note: I'm not American and don't live in the US. African Americans have been killed by police, imprisoned as almost a racial policy (often resulting from petty drug offenses). So let's say there are an equal number of people killed on each side. 30…

Tragedies that have been wildly pumped up by various elements, to even more tragic results. I've already seen three or four black men killed by other black men just this morning on the Boston news, and that's just since yesterday. Nobody is out in the streets over that.

Yes they are. Organizations like Stop the Violence have been protesting and marching for years. But these are black victims killed by black criminals in black neighborhoods so the news doesn't care and doesn't report on it.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#254

Post by rbanffy »

jister wrote: post #127

DISCLAIMER: I am a Filipino and I live in the Philippines When an international media writes something without much knowledge on what's really going on it blows out of proportion. Now let me give you an idea of our situation here before the Duterte presidency. HISTORY ============== The Marcoses and Aquinos and their cronies, have brought the Philippines to its knees for decades (50 years). These families are what we…

> 5 police generals were mentioned that they are the protectors of the DRUG TRIAD here in the Philippines. It was also mentioned that 23 mayors are also linked to the triad

> President Duterte had a list of people involved

I wonder how many of those are political allies. My guess would be something very close to zero.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#255

Post by obj-g »

yardie wrote: post #252
obj-g wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No national mourning has been declared for "500-600 corpses" because we don't mourn criminals, thugs, people who reach for guns when confronted by police, people who resist arrest, etc. You act as if the police did a raid on Google and pulled all the black employees out and shot them execution style. That sort of thing is definitely not happening.

Is resisting arrest an executable offense? That is certainly needs to me. No, not really. I'm black so I know they're are 2 justice systems in the US.

If officers feel threatened, if you're aggressive, if you reach for something in your pocket, disobey them -- it certainly can turn out that way. The overwhelming majority, it may surprise you, take no pleasure in having to fire on someone. They want to go home to their families after work. I grew up in Phoenix, AZ -- I cannot step foot in South Phoenix for fear of my life. That's the truth. Their job is not to make the life of unruly and unlawful people easier, no matter what race they may be. And saying you're black as proof of something is only proof of confirmation bias.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#256

Post by Hasknewbie »

Amezarak wrote: post #240
Hasknewbie wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but you sound like an aging white man slamming his fist on the table and hectoring "what we need is a good war!" at family dinners. Human rights, and more specifically due process, are not 'Western', they've just been formulated there. Do you believe gravity is 'white' or 'jewish' because it was formulated by Einstein? And societies that 'get' due process objectively do better: tell me, who does better in…

> Human rights, and more specifically due process, are not 'Western', they've just been formulated there. Do you believe gravity is 'white' or 'jewish' because it was formulated by Einstein? Are you saying that human rights are real in some sense? That they're something more than arbitrary legal constructs/a civic religion devised by Westerners in the last few centuries?

Human Rights are about as real as money: you can claim it's a made-up social concept, but good luck denying its worth.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#257

Post by thomasfoster96 »

sfifs wrote: post #249
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, actually I said that the US is still a democracy. People voted for Obama and they got Obama. Obama may have said what he wanted to do in office back in 2008 and then not been able to achieve those things, but that doesn't make the US undemocratic. That's how representative democracy works - you vote for representatives, not policies.

Well Filipinos voted for this President who was very clear on his policues and they got him and he is doing what he promised. Democracy right though perhaps not to everyone's taste. What is then the objection?

Well, I object to the policy itself in the first place. Extrajudicial executions, regardless of whether or not a popularly elected president encourages (or even orders) them, are fundamentally contrary to the rule of law and basic human rights.

Edit: Additionally, extrajudicial executions are a sign that Duterte doesn't respect the law. If he continues to encourage vigilante killings, there is precedent for him to encourage law breaking in other areas. Who's not to say there won't be electoral laws being flouted?

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#258

Post by scarmig »

philliphaydon wrote: post #188
electic wrote: post #16

> During the campaign, Duterte said 100,000 people would die in his crackdown, with so many dead bodies dumped in Manila Bay that fish there would grow fat from feeding on them. This isn't a joke. This is real. What a sick bastard.

I live in Singapore. There are 1000s of Filipino's in Singapore, during the election 1000s of Filipino's flew back just to vote for him. They really want their country cleaned up. Have you ever been there. His city before he cleaned it up, you could not safely walk down the streets, you would be stabbed in broad daylight. Now you can safely walk down the streets at night without being mugged. Call him sick all you wa…

Disneyland with the death penalty.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#259

Post by spacecowboy_lon »

jister wrote: post #127

DISCLAIMER: I am a Filipino and I live in the Philippines When an international media writes something without much knowledge on what's really going on it blows out of proportion. Now let me give you an idea of our situation here before the Duterte presidency. HISTORY ============== The Marcoses and Aquinos and their cronies, have brought the Philippines to its knees for decades (50 years). These families are what we…

It's people like you who gave the nod and wink to abuses like the mechanics school in the dirty war in Argentina.

No offense but this is "working towards the Fuhrer" in action

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#260

Post by hobs »

jdimov10 wrote: post #171
norswap wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love your brand of moral relativism.

Morals and ethics can only ever be relative / subjective / personal. Moral absolutism is the root of all evil.

I once thought this, and I disagree.

There are many issues which you can find common ground for a base case of moral absolutism when you are not being absurd.

Moral relativism allows you to accept the actual evil of other's actions as a product of their culture.

That is the kind of thinking that allows people to say genital mutilation is a cultural thing.

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