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UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

theguardian.com

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Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#311
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that? The vote was met with such shock that it has re-raised the prospect of Scottish independence, and caused calls for referendums on Ireland, and has triggered the start of a small movement for independence for London (yes, most of the people who signed the change.org petition probably did it as a joke/out of anger, but there are groups organising more serious endeavours), and the signals all…

It's sort of like D&D. Everyone in the country had rolled their character. Assume one roll of a D20. People who rolled 13+ were doing OK in life. 19s and 20s were rich. 1 to 12s are poor. Cameron (our DM) came along and gave us all a free re-roll. People with 10 or less voted yes. 11 - 15 were about 50/50 depending on risk aversion. 16 - 20 voted no. The numbers are almost always going to sway in favour of change, th…

And for millions and millions of people it was shit. Utter shit. Credit card chomping, crappy zero hour job, minimum wage, second hand clothes, crappy car, no life insurance, no pension, crap.

Yep.

Except for one teeny weeny insignificantly minor detail: these things have nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, and everything to do with the austerity/de-industrialization policies of neo-liberal UK governments, primarily Tory, but to a somewhat less extent also New-Labour.

And the EU was, if anything, a counter to those forces, with structural funds, with labor standards, with investments by non-UK firms in the de-industrialized parts of the UK for access to the common market etc.

And leaving the EU will make these things worse.

So voting against the EU to protest these conditions is not even cutting off your nose to spite your face, it's cutting off your nose to spite someone else's face!

While it deserves the word "pathetic" I can't bring myself to it. It really is just sad. Very, very sad.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that this is not the case. In the last week, already, we have had senior government officials from several member countries recognising that this is not a realistic stance. And the foreign secretary explicitly mentions that UK is having precisely these conversations. The new administration is setting up a brexit department and accumulating expertise necessary to start negotiations. Talk is of article 50 invoca…

In the last week, already, we have had senior government officials from several member countries recognising that this is not a realistic stance. Citation needed. I have never seen this, and a quick check reveals the opposite: "Ms Merkel added: “We have spoken to Britain and made clear there will be no negotiations with Britain until they have made their application, and there will be no cherry picking.”" http://www.…

The idea that nobody will discuss anything is simply unsustainable, given the timescales and uncertainty involved.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/philip-hammo...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/02612186-467b-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86...

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I don't think that my post looks that daft, actually. There is still political turmoil which might be calming now, and the "The FTSE100 and FTSE250 are doing fine" is true because of the depreciating GBP. Ordinary people are going to see price rises and further uncertainty. Would you honestly say that the UK is in better shape than a month ago?

(my point is that my edit made it look like you didn't read my comment, based on phrasing, not because of how effective I think my argument was) We'll see what comes of this, but as I said, I think Britain's fundamentals are very strong right now. There's no doubt that Brexit created uncertainty in areas where there was none before; markets hate uncertainty. Britain's trade relations were certainties within the EU, b…

Yeah, the prospects are so bright that every single competent Brexit leader ran for cover rather than take ownership of the victory. Pfhht.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I don't think that my post looks that daft, actually. There is still political turmoil which might be calming now, and the "The FTSE100 and FTSE250 are doing fine" is true because of the depreciating GBP. Ordinary people are going to see price rises and further uncertainty. Would you honestly say that the UK is in better shape than a month ago?

(my point is that my edit made it look like you didn't read my comment, based on phrasing, not because of how effective I think my argument was) We'll see what comes of this, but as I said, I think Britain's fundamentals are very strong right now. There's no doubt that Brexit created uncertainty in areas where there was none before; markets hate uncertainty. Britain's trade relations were certainties within the EU, b…

You went from phenomenally well to "we'll see" in two comments.

Just like the Brexit campaign. Good job.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(my point is that my edit made it look like you didn't read my comment, based on phrasing, not because of how effective I think my argument was) We'll see what comes of this, but as I said, I think Britain's fundamentals are very strong right now. There's no doubt that Brexit created uncertainty in areas where there was none before; markets hate uncertainty. Britain's trade relations were certainties within the EU, b…

You went from phenomenally well to "we'll see" in two comments. Just like the Brexit campaign. Good job.

I stand by every single comment in this thread. The UK is doing well and I think they will continue to do so, fluctuations in the exchange rate and stock market notwithstanding. I'd stand by that even if they entered a small recession.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stay argument was 'more of the same' and millions of us can't live with more of the same. I need money for food. For shelter. For clothes. There are a lot of us really far down on the maslow's hierarchy of needs. We need change, even if that change is chaotic.

Seriously? That is your reasoning here?" Let's change something and I keep reading these scathing headlines about foreign bureaucrats and foreigners having jobs here, so let's get rid of them." One giant ill prepared and not really thought out knee jerk. That's one of the most stupid decisions I've ever seen.

says the rich man sigh

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sort of like D&D. Everyone in the country had rolled their character. Assume one roll of a D20. People who rolled 13+ were doing OK in life. 19s and 20s were rich. 1 to 12s are poor. Cameron (our DM) came along and gave us all a free re-roll. People with 10 or less voted yes. 11 - 15 were about 50/50 depending on risk aversion. 16 - 20 voted no. The numbers are almost always going to sway in favour of change, th…

And for millions and millions of people it was shit. Utter shit. Credit card chomping, crappy zero hour job, minimum wage, second hand clothes, crappy car, no life insurance, no pension, crap. Yep. Except for one teeny weeny insignificantly minor detail: these things have nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, and everything to do with the austerity/de-industrialization policies of neo-liberal UK governments, primaril…

what other option was there? I'm genuinely interested. The vote card said IN and OUT.

Pathetic? Name calling, wow that's low. I love how butt hurt you are. The more furious rich people are the better the decision feels.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You went from phenomenally well to "we'll see" in two comments. Just like the Brexit campaign. Good job.

I stand by every single comment in this thread. The UK is doing well and I think they will continue to do so, fluctuations in the exchange rate and stock market notwithstanding. I'd stand by that even if they entered a small recession.

> The UK is doing well and I think they will continue to do so

The likely dissolution of the political entity currently known as the UK, more formally the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" would preclude it "doing well", not so?

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#319
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WW2?

That wasn't a suicidal move; more of a "when you're cornered you have to fight or die" move.

Britain chose to enter the war, it wasn't cornered. It might have lost the war, and be in a much worse condition.
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