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UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

theguardian.com

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Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#301

Post by king_phil »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #217
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK's premier scientists can always get jobs elsewhere - and probably will. After a while, if research funding dries up, there won't be any more premier scientists being produced. Two, if you vote for people who are going to deny you prosperity, you don't get prosperity. If the working classes don't understand that, it's not the fault of the professional classes who - mostly - do. The reality is that some of those…

All of this was laid out in the Brexit arguments. We all watched it on TV and read about it. Leave said they would continue to fund science, farms, Wales and Cornwall and match the EU funding. Weather this actually happens will be interesting. I think the Tories will neg on that. I think Labour would keep funding. But in Cornwall, all those millions of EU funding were spent on total crap and none of the local people…

A lot of the UK government's money is spent on stupid stuff, too. And big businesses. Badum tzzz...

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#302

Post by king_phil »

sievebrain wrote: post #56
codecurve wrote: post #25

I just finished an EU funded CompSci Masters degree in Wales, the poorest country in the UK and it's devastatingly sad to think that once the EU research funding stops, those opportunities will be gone forever for future students coming through the department. There aren't enough large tech companies in the area for there to be any sponsored degrees available, which probably means that when the funding finishes, the…

You're talking about a government that recently made computer programming class a mandatory part of the high school curriculum. Your leap from "UK exits the EU" to "there will no longer be funding for computer science research" is based purely on your own emotions, not rational analysis. Like so much else I hear from pro-EU people these days.

I am pro EU AND pro Brexit, the latter from rational analysis. It will be a net win for me. My company does export telco services to the UK. After the UK leaving the EU the VAT will not apply any longer, so basically I net 20% more after taxes that go straight out of the pocket of the UK government into mine (btw: there is no competitor right now and none in sight...). Even if the UK is imposing the 4% max tariff I would net a 16% plus.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#303

Post by acid__ »

piokuc wrote: post #220
roymurdock wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So politicians will stop asking "What does the EU think" and go back to asking "What do Germany, France, and the UK think, and are they in agreement"? The distinction is less important than you think, because the second question gets at the heart of the issue and naturally follows the first. Unlike the US, The EU does not have a strong executive/legislative/judicial (and perhaps more-importantly, a shared language/na…

UK is not 5th largest economy in the world anymore: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/france-britai...

1. The article clearly states that when calculating GDP, the yearly average exchange rates are used, not the spot rate, as was used for that sensationalist headline.

2. The pound is recovering, and has already climbed back up beyond the point when the calculation in the article was made.

3. 5th or 6th, honestly, what difference does it make? The point is that they're still a major player in the world economy.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#304

Post by [deleted] »

wildmusings wrote: post #252
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when the UK continues to do phenomenally well So, in your view, the UK is doing " phenomenally well" right now? I mean I have read other opinions, including "deep political, social, democratic and economic crisis" and "value of the pound plunges". If the EU is trying to convince the remaining member states that "leaving is terrible, you should remain", then it's absolutely working: http://www.politico.eu/article/su…

They're in better shape than almost all of Europe. Germany being the main exception. And as for today vs a month ago, what's the evidence for that? I see them in a very strong position. The anti-business Labour Party is doing poorly in the polls, and the Conservatives have quickly coalesced around a new leader. The FTSE100 and FTSE250 are doing fine. There's every reason to believe that both Hillary (judging by her p…

[deleted]

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#305

Post by wildmusings »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #255
wildmusings wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're in better shape than almost all of Europe. Germany being the main exception. And as for today vs a month ago, what's the evidence for that? I see them in a very strong position. The anti-business Labour Party is doing poorly in the polls, and the Conservatives have quickly coalesced around a new leader. The FTSE100 and FTSE250 are doing fine. There's every reason to believe that both Hillary (judging by her p…

> They're in better shape than almost all of Europe. But not in very good shape at all compared to say, the UK a month ago.

Hey, I added my second paragraph after you responded. I was rate-limited by HackerNews, so I couldn't reply to you directly. I usually explicitly call it out when I'm doing that, but I forgot to this time. This makes your post look quite daft, which is not fair. Sorry about that.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#306

Post by AnonymousPlanet »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #296
AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so a lot of random people all make different promises and every voter believes in their favourite pick. For every broken promise you just have to point at the "random people" and say 'Booya, that promise doesn't count" even if all promises get broken. Neat trick.

The stay argument was 'more of the same' and millions of us can't live with more of the same. I need money for food. For shelter. For clothes. There are a lot of us really far down on the maslow's hierarchy of needs. We need change, even if that change is chaotic.

Seriously? That is your reasoning here?" Let's change something and I keep reading these scathing headlines about foreign bureaucrats and foreigners having jobs here, so let's get rid of them." One giant ill prepared and not really thought out knee jerk. That's one of the most stupid decisions I've ever seen.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#307

Post by mpweiher »

hardlianotion wrote: post #298
mpweiher wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Neither of these conditions are in the interest of the EU or the UK if talks are to be amicable and realistic." Well, that's your opinion. EU officials and heads of government appear to disagree with your view of what's best for them, having consistently and unerringly insisted that there will be NO negotiations whatsoever until Article 50 is invoked.

Except that this is not the case. In the last week, already, we have had senior government officials from several member countries recognising that this is not a realistic stance. And the foreign secretary explicitly mentions that UK is having precisely these conversations. The new administration is setting up a brexit department and accumulating expertise necessary to start negotiations. Talk is of article 50 invoca…

In the last week, already, we have had senior government officials from several member countries recognising that this is not a realistic stance.

Citation needed.

I have never seen this, and a quick check reveals the opposite:

"Ms Merkel added: “We have spoken to Britain and made clear there will be no negotiations with Britain until they have made their application, and there will be no cherry picking.”"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-refe...

This is from yesterday.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#308

Post by mpweiher »

Wintamute wrote: post #295
mpweiher wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed: Europe and Antarctica are the only two continents on Earth to see no net positive growth to their economies in the last few decades. Hmm...the numbers appear to disagree with your claim: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/european-union/gdp-annual-growth-rate China recently rated the UK as the number one soft power in the world[1] . Hmm...the article does not say that China is the source of the ratings:…

Ugh should've checked my sources a little better. Your criticisms are fair, but I stand by the spirit of my comment - especially the final sentence.

You are obviously correct in that this decision was not based on pragmatism (which seems very un-britsh to me). Your post also illustrates what the decision was actually based on: misinformation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#309

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

wildmusings wrote: post #305
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're in better shape than almost all of Europe. But not in very good shape at all compared to say, the UK a month ago.

Hey, I added my second paragraph after you responded. I was rate-limited by HackerNews, so I couldn't reply to you directly. I usually explicitly call it out when I'm doing that, but I forgot to this time. This makes your post look quite daft, which is not fair. Sorry about that.

But I don't think that my post looks that daft, actually. There is still political turmoil which might be calming now, and the "The FTSE100 and FTSE250 are doing fine" is true because of the depreciating GBP. Ordinary people are going to see price rises and further uncertainty. Would you honestly say that the UK is in better shape than a month ago?

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#310

Post by wildmusings »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #309
wildmusings wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I added my second paragraph after you responded. I was rate-limited by HackerNews, so I couldn't reply to you directly. I usually explicitly call it out when I'm doing that, but I forgot to this time. This makes your post look quite daft, which is not fair. Sorry about that.

But I don't think that my post looks that daft, actually. There is still political turmoil which might be calming now, and the "The FTSE100 and FTSE250 are doing fine" is true because of the depreciating GBP. Ordinary people are going to see price rises and further uncertainty. Would you honestly say that the UK is in better shape than a month ago?

(my point is that my edit made it look like you didn't read my comment, based on phrasing, not because of how effective I think my argument was)

We'll see what comes of this, but as I said, I think Britain's fundamentals are very strong right now. There's no doubt that Brexit created uncertainty in areas where there was none before; markets hate uncertainty. Britain's trade relations were certainties within the EU, but so were uncontrolled migration and over-regulation. Now, on those and many more issues, the Brits themselves will decide and negotiate. No one is quite sure what they will do, especially after the next election. But if Britain makes the right choices, and at least for now I think they have leadership that's inclined to make those right choices, I believe that they will do better than they could have within the EU.

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