UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears • Hacker News Board

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#201

Post by monk_e_boy » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:57 PM UTC

bpyne wrote: post #186

flexie wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked to a senior diplomat recently. He said that when talking to diplomats from China, Russia, the US in the beginning of his career some 30 years ago, nobody asked about the EU opinion on issues. In the last 10 years, however, he never heard "what does Britain or France or Germany think about XYZ" but only "What does the EU think". What some leavers don't realise is that the entire world had gotten used to deali…

I know little of Britain's political system. If Article 50 isn't being invoked until the end of the year, can Britain have another national vote on Brexit before then?

Technically yes. But I imagine that if they did everyone would be incensed and vote leave - to send a message. Whoever was in power at the time would be hoisted out in short order.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#202

Post by ckinnan » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:58 PM UTC

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #63

ckinnan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU's retarding democracy and human progress; European growth is non-existent, the Euro is failing, and fiscal and banking mismanagement in Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugual are destroying German and British wealth. Britain has almost all of the world-class research universities in the European Union and they will thrive outside the EU. Edit with sources: EU real per capita GDP is flat after 10 years: http://ec.europa.…

Growth non-existent? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but this would suggest otherwise... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#...

Real per capita GDP was 26,200 euros in 2007 and is 26,300 today. After 10 years of EU policymaking and an extraordinary borrowing spree, nothing to show for it.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&l...

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#203

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:58 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #138

codecurve wrote: post #25

I just finished an EU funded CompSci Masters degree in Wales, the poorest country in the UK and it's devastatingly sad to think that once the EU research funding stops, those opportunities will be gone forever for future students coming through the department. There aren't enough large tech companies in the area for there to be any sponsored degrees available, which probably means that when the funding finishes, the…

Couple of things: The UK has premier scientists. The EU would be remiss to not find a way to work things out. If not, I'm sure other places will pick them up. These are field leading scientists. Two, upper middle class still don't get it. They're still tone deaf. The Brexit was the working class demanding what was promised them, which was prosperity that never came. Instead they got sold out for a cheaper European wo…

Is this anti-Pole position purely something that has arisen, or is it a product of years of anti-immigrant campaigning by newspapers?

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#204

Post by throwaway-hn123 » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #135

tobltobs wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't tell this the Scotts ...

The UK is not a club and has clear power structures that mean there is no need to get Scotland to agree to things in order for them to happen, as evidenced by the referendum.

Not for much longer. I guess then it'll be petulant Scotland punishing the UK?

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#205

Post by tremon » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #135

tobltobs wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't tell this the Scotts ...

The UK is not a club and has clear power structures that mean there is no need to get Scotland to agree to things in order for them to happen, as evidenced by the referendum.

It's sad how people use this line of reasoning to attack the EU, but see no problems using the exact same thing when defending the current UK structure.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#206

Post by Radim » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #139

SlashmanX wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they do give a deal to the UK wouldn't that trigger more exits? If countries see they can leave the EU and still get a trade deal they'd be more likely to leave than if they saw the UK get shafted (so to speak).

Yes, that's why the EU is doomed and will be gone within a decade no matter what they do now. It is a fundamentally unattractive entity. The people who run it have never even tried to combat rising anti-EU feeling across the continent, as they believe the EU is inevitable and unstoppable, so why bother trying to make it more popular. Now it's probably too late: they've become so gripped by groupthink they can't refor…

  Yes, that's why the EU is doomed and will be gone within a decade no matter what they do now.

"I give the Bolsheviks a year, two at most". Quote from a famous Czech movie [1] about the ill-fated Prague Spring, 1968 :-)

But in fact, communism survived for more than another twenty years...

My point: these things take longer than one would expect. Unlike logic, where a proven theorem takes its "logical effect" immediately, the politic process has massive inertia. The time gap between "result obvious and unavoidable" and "result effective" can be decades.

I second your sentiment, but I'm afraid it will take much longer for the EU to fall apart. Just like with communism before (and about as "reformable"). I personally think it will take a generation, starting now -- especially in parts of the west that have to tread this glorious neo-marxist path for the first time.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDEsj5QEWwY

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#207

Post by throwaway-hn123 » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #175

DasIch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK not getting the same things a EU member would get is not being punitive.

Is is if it is of mutual benefit, except to the EU in general.

No, it still isn't being punitive.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#208

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 4:00 PM UTC

diego_moita wrote: post #194

Chris2048 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slur on "Brexiters" aside, the government called a referendum - it has the responsibility of a plan. Otherwise, who foots the bill for such a plan?

> the government [...] has the responsibility of a plan Uh, .... are you implying the Brexiters never had a plan?

No. There are no purposeful 'implications' in my comment, there are only explicit statements.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#209

Post by Oletros » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 4:01 PM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #109

djaychela wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"More than enough money" (and certainly the figures I've seen people bandying about) assumes that the cost of accessing the EU market (which I think we will have to pay) would be zero. I think it will be a significant proportion of the amount we were paying (net) to the EU, and in addition there will be other costs which people are just starting to cotton onto as well. The main thing is that at the moment, we really…

WTO max tariffs (worst case scenario) are 4%. But the currency has weaked by about 8%. So even if max tariffs are applied tomorrow, UK goods are still cheaper to buy in the EU than before! In practice, if the EU doesn't strike a deal with the UK (which it won't) then I think it will suffer more exits. Because the EU has spent years trying to sign free trade deals with America, Canada and other places. If it turns aro…

> If it turns around and says "we will give those countries tariff-free access to our markets but not the UK" this will send a powerful message to all EU citizens that this is not an organisation with their best interests at heart.

I think that you wanted to say that "this is not an organisation with UK best interests at heart.

UK government has little sympathy in the rest of the EU

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#210

Post by programLyrique » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 4:06 PM UTC

m_fayer wrote: post #81

endeavour wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See how far you have to scroll down the list to find an university inside the EU (excluding the UK). https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin...

This list omits purely research institutions such as the Max Planck institutes, which as a whole are a behemoth: Also https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/the-titans-institu...

And CNRS in France. The first British one is University College London, after Max Planck Society and CNRS.

The Nature Index (http://www.natureindex.com/annual-tables/2016/institution/al... ) has CNRS 3rd, then the Max Planck institutes 4th, and the first British one, Oxford, is 7th.