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Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#71

Post by ashark »

WWKong wrote: post #62

I'm curious to see how they surveyed for "happiness". As a parent the initial years are rough just providing care. In the thick of it if someone comes and asks, "are you happy?", the answer is irrelevant (I understand that the question won't be as direct, but the outcome will be similar). IMHO the best question is, "if you could go back in time would you still decide to have children?".

> IMHO the best question is, "if you could go back in time would you still decide to have children?".

No way you'd get a straight answer to that since it's way, way too close to "do you wish your kids were dead?" It'd probably be tough to come up with any question that probes that sentiment that wouldn't be strongly affected by that problem.

My answer would be "go back in time and decide to have these children? 100% yes, no reservations. Go back in time but no guarantee (or even likelihood) that the kids will be the same? Probably would not want kids." Maybe shifting the question to focus in the direction of that second part would help, though I doubt it'd be enough to make it useful.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#72

Post by jotux »

a2tech wrote: post #24

My friends with children after they've had a few drinks have all told my wife and I to not have children. I know this is a small selection of college educated people with comfortable lifestyles, but when every single person I know discloses to me when they're in a truthful state that we're better off not having kids..it makes you think.

Young children are difficult. Ask them again in 40 years.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#73

Post by Overtonwindow »

buckbova wrote: post #58
Overtonwindow wrote: post #21

I do think people have children for the wrong reasons, most of them selfish. Honestly I want kids so I have someone to play legos with, or whatever they want to do.

What is a reason to have children that is not selfish unless your doing it to please your SO solely? Of course there's adoption.

I should have explained my point more. I think parents have children because they feel obligated, or due to religious, family, social, or some other personal need. I don't know if I've ever met anyone or seen anywhere that a couple has asked themselves WHY they are having children, but rather SHOULD they have children. It's a sensitive subject that could make or break a relationship.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#74

Post by drumdance »

greyman wrote: post #29

As a father, I still cant believe how someone might be happier without children, or kids have not made him happier... it is a most fulfilling thing to have a relationship with ones own kid. I also do not personally know anyone who said kids didnt make him happier. I am from Europe, not USA, but it is unlikely people are that different there.

Depending on which country in Europe, what I've heard is that the social safety net is much better for parents than in the US.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#75

Post by blablablame »

a2tech wrote: post #24

My friends with children after they've had a few drinks have all told my wife and I to not have children. I know this is a small selection of college educated people with comfortable lifestyles, but when every single person I know discloses to me when they're in a truthful state that we're better off not having kids..it makes you think.

I get drunk every so often (when my kid isn't around) and I still I love the little bugger and wouldn't trade that experience for anything. I don't suggest people to be parents (some folks won't be happy with that choice) but you must run in very weird circles if every parent friend you have tells you not to have kids when they are tipsy.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#76

Post by sosuke »

inanutshellus wrote: post #69
sosuke wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No data to back up my feeling that most of the pressure stay at home women get is from other women. My wife stays at home and we buck any negative comment together to keep those feelings at bay. We show we are proud of it, not ashamed by it and we aren't willing to let anyone else belittle our choices. Any negative comment, any off-hand comment needs to be squashed immediately. Same thing happens with self-esteem iss…

It seems there's no "bright" side. There are some stay-at-home moms in my wife's family and they were... defensive... when my wife went back to work. So either way, you find a way to be resentful or ashamed. Go back to work and miss your child's first steps/words/laughs. Go back to work and someone else raises your children. Someone else uses your child to teach their child how to be a leader. Someone else (accidenta…

You can have a bright side if you can shake off the judgement of others. Some folks seem better equipped at this than others and I'd like to figure out how to "skill up" that trait!

The dual-income and DINKs (dual-income no kids) families will always win when appraised financially. Home, car, health. You have to work twice as hard for the same output on one income.

"Stay at home and propagate stereotypes" feels wrong these days. The stereotype and expectation seems to have both parents working and having one stay at home is bucking the trend.

All of the negatives seem to center around the individuals valuation of themselves based on outside opinions.

I'm too close to giving real opinions so I'm bowing out of the thread. ARRGGHH!

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#77

Post by beachstartup »

buckbova wrote: post #58
Overtonwindow wrote: post #21

I do think people have children for the wrong reasons, most of them selfish. Honestly I want kids so I have someone to play legos with, or whatever they want to do.

What is a reason to have children that is not selfish unless your doing it to please your SO solely? Of course there's adoption.

you forgot the big one -- to please the would-be grandparents.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#78

Post by greyman »

collyw wrote: post #68
greyman wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, having kids is the most fulfilling thing happening in my life. Honestly, that advice is terrible.

When people say kids are the most fulfilling thing in their life, is it because they are didn't have anything really fulfilling in their life before that? I get fulfillment for my job some of the time - though its not the be all and end all in my life and it pissed me off sometimes too. I get a lot more from whitewater kayaking and mountain biking and generally being outdoors in my spare time. Some of my friends have…

> Did you have something that gave you a lot of fulfillment before you had kids?

Yes, and I still do. I am a soft dev, so job is quite fulfilling, I also like mountain hiking, friends, etc. But having a kid is something different, it is just not comparable regarding the level of satisfaction. For me the relationship with my kid is the most fulfilling thing a world can offer. (But of course I wouldnt believe that before I had one)

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#79

Post by brightball »

rday wrote: post #9

I'd really like to see a study specific to female happiness with children. I live in the US, and I think men and women's experience with children is entirely different. When my wife worked, she missed our kids tremendously. Almost 75% of her take home went to day care. She was pretty miserable. Now she stays home. She gets a lot of off-hand comments from other friends with kids about "how bored they would be if they…

I've observed the same. My wife is happy working while simultaneously feeling like she wishes she could be home with the kids. She works with a number of women with master's degrees and they consistently opt to stop working as soon as maternity leave is up if they are able to.

Our kids go to late stay programs at school because we both work, which means that if they want to do an after school activity like soccer, dance, scouts, etc that it's a "rush from late stay, change as fast as you can, go to activity."

We aren't trying to overload them or anything either, just aiming for 1 after school activity a couple of days a week.

I think 90% of the pressure is people trying to justify their life choices or requirements.

If you are working mom and you have to be for income sake or to pay student loans, you'll see stay at home mom's with a "must be nice" attitude.

If you're a working mom and you don't have to be, it's a "I'd be so bored" or "What do you do all day?" or "My job gives me purpose" because it reinforces your own life choices (whether you believe it or not).

If you're a stay at home mom because your job would just be paying for day care, it's going to be a feeling that you should be doing more.

If you're a stay at home mom because you choose to you should feel nothing but contentment with it because you made the choice.

This is a hard lesson that a lot of people, myself included, are experiencing because we've all been sold a different bill of goods our entire lives. There's even a book on it called The Two Income Trap.

The simplest way to filter out negative chatter is to identify whether somebody is trying to make themselves feel better about their own choices or not. That's 90% of the negative chatter that I observe.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#80

Post by deegles »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #64
greyman wrote: post #29

As a father, I still cant believe how someone might be happier without children, or kids have not made him happier... it is a most fulfilling thing to have a relationship with ones own kid. I also do not personally know anyone who said kids didnt make him happier. I am from Europe, not USA, but it is unlikely people are that different there.

It may make you happier, but at what cost? Having children is a monumentally massive physical, emotional, financial, and psychological investment. What if there's a problem in the womb and they're born with a physical defect? What if there's a problem at birth and my spouse is now physically scarred for life? What if I get divorced and my wife now legally fucks me out of everything I own, and grooms the children to d…

Not to be snarky, but clearly enough people do, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. :)
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