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Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

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Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#121
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discussion painting an entire religion, condemning and insulting a billion individuals, as criminal and violent is ignorant and disgusting, and should not be on Hacker News (or anywhere else in civilized society). I can only imagine what Muslim readers of HN feel when reading it, seeing that our community - and YCombinator - appear to condone it. The problem isn't Muslims, Christians or any other religion; it's…

We need to talk about Islam's human rights problems all the time everywhere because that's the only way these problems will ever see the light of day. In Muslim countries these problems are always buried and there is a conspiracy to keep them buried so that no social progress can be made. That's immensely disrespectful to the victims of these problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina#Human_rights_controversy

If you want to say certain governments have human rights problems, and we should speak out, I agree; some are in predominately Muslim countries but most are not.

If you want to say some religion and its members promote human rights problems, I say that comment is ignorant and discriminatory. Ironically, by spreading that in our society, you are creating human rights problems.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#122
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discussion painting an entire religion, condemning and insulting a billion individuals, as criminal and violent is ignorant and disgusting, and should not be on Hacker News (or anywhere else in civilized society). I can only imagine what Muslim readers of HN feel when reading it, seeing that our community - and YCombinator - appear to condone it. The problem isn't Muslims, Christians or any other religion; it's…

Religion is the ideology that breeds and justifies those attitudes. We need to stop treating religion differently than any other beliefs people hold.

If you want to talk about religious (or any ideological) fundamentalism, that's fine.

But to single out Islam is ignorance and prejudice; clearly you don't really know what you are talking about. These statements are very harmful; it's well known how incredible dangerous religious discrimination is; shouldn't you seriously study the issue (not Internet forums and talking heads, but real scholarship) before you talk about it?

To paint all of Islam and all Muslims as reflecting these accusations is just plain stereotype; it's just unequivocally idiotic, ignorant and wrong; there is nothing redeeming to it, intellectually or otherwise.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#123
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to talk about Islam's human rights problems all the time everywhere because that's the only way these problems will ever see the light of day. In Muslim countries these problems are always buried and there is a conspiracy to keep them buried so that no social progress can be made. That's immensely disrespectful to the victims of these problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina#Human_rights_controversy

If you want to say certain governments have human rights problems, and we should speak out, I agree; some are in predominately Muslim countries but most are not. If you want to say some religion and its members promote human rights problems, I say that comment is ignorant and discriminatory. Ironically, by spreading that in our society, you are creating human rights problems.

> Iran has prosecuted many cases of zina, and enforced public stoning to death of those accused between 2001 and 2010.

Would love to see imprisoned for life or executed the people who justify and/or enforce such laws such as the current Iranian government.

> In contrast to human rights activists, Islamic scholars and Islamist political parties consider 'universal human rights' arguments as imposition of a non-Muslim culture on Muslim people, a disrespect of customary cultural practices and sexual codes that are central to Islam.

I mean to disrespect customary cultural practices and sexual codes central to Islam. I mean to say according to the above interpretation the sexual codes central to Islam have no place in modern society and neither does the enforcement of customary cultural practices as they are repressive and a violation of universal human rights.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN tends to follow stories about tech, science, and other hacker-y things. The fact that this story may involve death is interesting, but it's not why it's getting attention here. But since it gets attention due to its tech content, and since it seems quite possible some death may result, I don't see why that should be ignored just because the numbers are small. I don't see this as stereotyping or demonization. If pe…

It's interesting to me that people seek to deny the obvious, the prejudice against Muslims. You can find many such statements on this page.

It's not obvious to me. Maybe you could point to some examples?

Acknowledging that the group contains some crazy people is not prejudice, it's just fact, unless one also chooses to ignore similar situations in other groups. I don't see that here.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's generally discouraged by law. Don't some muslim countries have laws violently that punish sexually promiscuous people?

Please look it up before you say things like this.

Just one of many examples http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/courts/couple-deny-k...

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#126
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh really? Expand on this?

It's an important disclaimer that race is ultimately a human construct so when if say that something is a race I mean that people either identify themselves or a class of people as belonging to that race. Back to the point, certain religions are so ingrained culturally and politically that people start to identify themselves culturally and ethnically with the faith because of the people's shared ethical values, histo…

I'm not sure what the criterion here is. Certain Muslim countries legally prohibit certain sects from identifying themselves as Muslims, and Israel prevents Messianic Jews from identifying as Jewish. Perhaps you mean culturally or civilizationally? This line of thinking can lead to dark places, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Sells#Christoslavism

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am infuriated that people think that crime in Muslim countries represents Muslims, but crime in other countries represents criminals.

I don't see anyone here saying that this represents all Muslims. There is a difference between stereotyping an entire group based on the actions of a few, and merely acknowledging the actions of a few. The fact that some Muslims practice honor killings is just reality, same as the fact that some Christians murder gay people or drive them to suicide. Pointing out that some may suffer due to the actions of those few do…

Well, to give an example, I didn't see people worried that Madison Ashley leaks would lead to people murdering their spouses and children, even though that happens in these cases.

How come no one took some time to point that out?

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please look it up before you say things like this.

Just one of many examples http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/courts/couple-deny-k...

And the US of A:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/is-adultery-illegal-...

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"there is ample market opportunity in providing secure services and communications for Muslim clients." You mean aiding and abeitting terrorists? That's the nonsense they'll mention when they target that company or its founders. "They" means about any country in the Wassenar Agreement, part of many Eyes coalition, prone to mass surveillance, or concerned about terrorism. That's unfortunately about every democracy or…

If a terrorist organization wants secure communications, they will find a way to get them, whether by an app with encryption by default like Telegram or something they make in-house. You can't stop or prevent that unless you intend to do so for everybody on Earth. It has nothing to do with being Muslim.

"If a terrorist organization wants secure communications, they will find a way to get them"

That's what people keep saying. Yet, remember that outreach has to be convenient, use wide-spread tech, and deal with the kind of idiots who blow themselves up for twisted interpretation of religion. ISIS isn't running exclusively on GPG infrastructure despite Snowden leaks showing it was about all that worked to stop surveillance. Instead, they're all over social media, regular messengers, and so on. Black markets are still mostly on ICQ & email. Recent terrorist had iPhones and burner phones (don't recall brand).

So, they can theoretically use nearly impenetrable, pain-in-the-ass stuff but are more likely to use what's convenient and popular. Make ultra-secure stuff convenient and popular for Muslims specifically will likely lead to large uptake among Muslims who are terrorists. It will make you a target for doing so as helping those criminals gets more attention, pressure, and even legal might than most.

"It has nothing to do with being Muslim."

Sure does. Prior comment and rest of this one assume the non-Muslim government profiles Muslims as terrorists, assumes specific countries with potential users aid terrorism, and/or assumes some Muslim countries will oppose encryption that threatens their rule. So, in Five Eyes and even some Muslim countries, the perception might be that Muslims seeking encryption cops and spies can't break means they're up to no good. That might be a problem for both supplier and any users if a surveillance dragnet exists. Less likely to be the case if they were, say, Arab Buddhists in a 15 person church that doesn't evangelize. No perceived threat there. ;)

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please look it up before you say things like this.

Just one of many examples http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/courts/couple-deny-k...

This shows laws against PDAs, not private "promiscuity" whatever that is
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