Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#101

Post by mikeash » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:06 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #95

mikeash wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim isn't that there will be lots of these, so a small number isn't in any way meaningless. If some incident was going to result in a few more people getting struck and killed by lightning, that might well get a similar reaction. If you don't like Wikipedia as a source, the original news stories are all linked at the bottom.

> If some incident was going to result in a few more people getting struck and killed by lightning, that might well get a similar reaction. I disagree. How many things cause people to die in higher numbers? We wouldn't have time to read about all of them. If you are suggesting that stereotype and demonization of Muslims isn't involved in the response, I have a very hard time believing it. Just look at those things he…

HN tends to follow stories about tech, science, and other hacker-y things. The fact that this story may involve death is interesting, but it's not why it's getting attention here.

But since it gets attention due to its tech content, and since it seems quite possible some death may result, I don't see why that should be ignored just because the numbers are small.

I don't see this as stereotyping or demonization. If people were saying that all of these people were going to die, then I could see it. But merely stating it as a possibility is just being realistic. You'd see the same sort of reaction if gaydar.net's user database leaked, just with "Christian" and "driven to suicide" in place of "Muslim" and "honor killing."

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#102

Post by CaptSpify » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:12 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #94

FreedomToCreate wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One big difference is that people outed by Ashley Madison were not at risk to the degree that muslim daters are at being harmed violently. And even though the definition of adultery may vary between cultures, ignoring the difference between a website where you purposely go in blatant disregard of a personal and somewhat legal trust you established with someone versus a website where you go in an attempt to build a ne…

Without looking up the statistics, I'm confident that "being outed as a cheater" is one of the leading causes of people being "harmed violently" by their spouse.

But that's generally discouraged by law. Don't some muslim countries have laws violently that punish sexually promiscuous people?

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#103

Post by basseq » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #96

basseq wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's homogeneous, but the sentiment "feels" different. (Scientific, I know.) For instance, there aren't people here who are saying, "It's good we're outing adulterers: they deserve it." I went back and looked at two of the largest HN posts on AM from last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10083536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9914024 And yes, there are a lot of good comments. * In3d not…

Most comment threads on HN only stabilize after 24 hours, if you want to draw long term sentiment information from comment threads I'd suggest to only do that after the threads are archived. Initial responses and final picture can be quite different.

Obviously? I'm not doing longitudinal sentiment analysis here; I'm pointing out the absence of "they deserve it" comments (or comments referring to same) that were present in the same timeframe for AM.

This isn't an indictment on HN. This is musing on a similar dating site leak.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#104

Post by Grue3 » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:22 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #81

x5n1 wrote: post #29

> This is a serious security threat for many Muslims abroad. It's not a threat. It's a wake up call. The less you can bury all that goes on under the rug the less easier it is to justify repressive, hypocritical cultures like the cultures around Islam.

This discussion painting an entire religion, condemning and insulting a billion individuals, as criminal and violent is ignorant and disgusting, and should not be on Hacker News (or anywhere else in civilized society). I can only imagine what Muslim readers of HN feel when reading it, seeing that our community - and YCombinator - appear to condone it. The problem isn't Muslims, Christians or any other religion; it's…

Religion is the ideology that breeds and justifies those attitudes. We need to stop treating religion differently than any other beliefs people hold.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#105

Post by DominikR » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #85

DominikR wrote: post #12

This is clearly a criminal and very evil act that will likely harm many people, not just emotionally but also physically. I wonder how anyone could be so deranged to do something like this. But it is also a cultural problem of these Muslim societies that they actually stone people to death for adultery. This is horrific. If I were to make a dating app then I would outright ban all of these countries because I don't w…

> Muslim societies that they actually stone people to death for adultery This is false. Put on your skeptical, critical thinking cap: 1) Do you really know that stoning is prevelant, and not just a few sensational news stories? 2) Is there a high correlation? That is, are there Muslim societies that don't stone people (maybe in wealthy parts of the world)? Are there other groups that do stone people and do similarly…

This is about a leak from a dating app for Muslims. So it doesn't make sense for me to write about the risks that someone in Hawaii or Germany might face after a similar leak.

And sorry, but there are many types of sexual acts that are criminalised in Muslim countries.

Not just adultery which is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Jemen, Qatar (and I'm sure there are many more) but also homosexuality where also the death penalty is applied in 11 Muslim countries.

You can't brush that away by pointing to discrimination. Compared to the West these societies have in some areas truly horrific laws. Yes this is not true for all Muslim countries (Turkey, Bosnia and Indonesia comes to mind), but it is most of them. And where there is no death penalty, we often see honor killings which are not persecuted by their governments. (Pakistan)

If no one speaks up about this then these societies will continue like this forever. I don't mean to hurt normal people in Muslim countries that just go about a normal life, but I also wont say everything is fine when it clearly isn't. And who could I hurt with this except for radicals or people unknowingly following or being played by radicals?

There's also many things that are wrong in our societies, but one thing is for sure: You wont see US or EU citizens burn embassies to the ground or declaring Fatwas because someone criticised our society or culture.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#106

Post by DominikR » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #98

DominikR wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes him or her no different from the terrorists themselves, though I can understand the suffering if you have lost someone. These are just normal people after all that will be harmed. Some random teenagers sexting in the Middle East.

I'm not advocating or commenting about the morality either way. I was just saying who I thought it probably was based on who was targeted and what was disclosed.

Yes I know, I didn't down vote you.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#107

Post by projectramo » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #73

ss108 wrote: post #39

The comments about honor killings and stoning for adultery are a bit ridiculous. Honor killings usually happen in tribal and rural segments of Pakistan--not the kinds of people who use Muslim Match. Not all of the users are even from Pakistan, many were probably from the US and the UK, and a lot of the people on there were just genuinely looking for a spouse. Do you guys really think that nobody has premarital sex in…

Here are several examples of honor killings in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_St... I'm sure you can find them in other countries too. The people who use Muslim Match and the people who would commit honor killings aren't the same people. I don't see why it's so unimaginable that a child might use Muslim Match and their parent might think honor killings are necessary.

This is infuriating.

Have you seen the infanticide statistics in the US? About 450/year.

That is per year, btw.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/10/parents...

One of the top reasons? "A parent acting out of revenge against a spouse or partner."

Yet, you didn't express any concern that the Ashley Madison leak is going to lead to a spate of child murders.

Honor killings are like that: rare, perverse, unrepresentative.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#108

Post by projectramo » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

basseq wrote: post #45

At the risk of making a tenuous (and inflammatory) connection, I'm struck by the difference in tone between this and the Ashley Madison leak. Here, there's sentiments of "how terrible", "leaked users might have severe consequences", and "this ruins the privacy where people get away from repressive social mores". Ashley Madison, by comparison, was met with sentiments of "good!", "glad we're outing adulters", and "thes…

I don't think people have a good response to this point.

People don't really look at the statistics, they are reacting based on their assumptions based on what they see on TV.

All the people who make this honor killing claim would be shocked to see the statistical difference between those and the violence with cheating.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#109

Post by projectramo » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

CaptSpify wrote: post #102

BurningFrog wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without looking up the statistics, I'm confident that "being outed as a cheater" is one of the leading causes of people being "harmed violently" by their spouse.

But that's generally discouraged by law. Don't some muslim countries have laws violently that punish sexually promiscuous people?

Please look it up before you say things like this.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#110

Post by __david__ » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:52 PM UTC

basseq wrote: post #45

At the risk of making a tenuous (and inflammatory) connection, I'm struck by the difference in tone between this and the Ashley Madison leak. Here, there's sentiments of "how terrible", "leaked users might have severe consequences", and "this ruins the privacy where people get away from repressive social mores". Ashley Madison, by comparison, was met with sentiments of "good!", "glad we're outing adulters", and "thes…

Well of course people impress their own values on the situation. Yes, if you step back and put on your impartial glasses, there's no difference. But people aren't robots, and it's difficult to be impartial, even when you don't have a horse in the race. I find it completely natural, in our society, for people to be rather gleeful about the whole Ashley Madison thing—having cheaters (which goes against a large portion of the population's send of morality) be "punished" for their crimes feels just and karmic. It isn't really, but it feels that way. It rubs that high ground moral compass part of your brain (or maybe it's just schadenfreude). Either way, it's not necessarily wrong or unexpected—it's just the way people's brains tend to work.

I can guarantee you there are some rabidly anti-muslim folk out there that feel gleeful about this hack, but that segment of the population is far, far smaller than the segment that feels adultery is wrong.