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Burnout and Mental Health

stephaniehurlburt.com

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Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#101

Post by isuckatcoding »

sp527 wrote: post #92

One of the best things I've ever done for myself: quit my job. Stating this not to brag but to make my point: 8 months ago I was clearing north of $140k plus options at a top tech co (plus all the usual perks/full benefits) at age 23. The path was probably open for a management position and easily over 200K per year by age 30. I hated it. The work was agonizingly mundane. The environment was intellectually letheragic…

I am pretty much in the same boat as you were at your job. I wish I could quit straight up but financially it wouldn't be responsible. Been searching for a job since February but my shitty technical interview skills and lack of experience keep getting me rejected. Lol I am literally willing to "code" HTML at this point.

BTW 140k at 23?? Jeez I am the same age as you and I am getting payed just below 100k and I work in SF.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#102

Post by quantumhobbit »

tequila_shot wrote: post #4

This is exactly what I am going through right now. It's been 5 months and I don't have any recollection of my first month. I'm in the middle of a high profile project which goes to UAT in two weeks, and I know it is slated to fail. There's just too many issues. I have been working 85+ hours every week constantly for the past ~5 months. Being an Immigrant ( H1B) makes it more difficult. All I do these days is code for…

The more I see in this industry, the more I realize that the key to avoiding burnout is being able to spot these death march projects from a distance and avoid them.

Some people have a sixth sense for this; you will see them transfer to different departments or companies before anything seems wrong. Other less ethical people will see the writing on the wall too late to transfer and will maneuver someone else to take the fall. It sounds like they picked you, I'm sorry. Being H1B just makes you an easier target. My advice would be to take any other job you can get.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#103

Post by jtheory »

outworlder wrote: post #47
Swizec wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a great scapegoat to me! Hope you have all those email threads stored :) If not -> start producing them.

Oh yes please build a paper trail. This should be your no.1 job starting now. Doesn't matter what the actual outcome will be, the paper trail is your only defense.

It's worth emphasizing... the paper trail must show you're doing everything you can to warn the company that this project is currently on track to fail, and (as much as you can illuminate it) what the costs to the company will be.

Back up your reasoning as clearly and simply as you can.

From the perspective of your employers: because they're paying your salary (and others as well, including half your boss' salary dedicated to this), for a failed end result -- firing you as the scapegoat doesn't leave them with nothing, it leaves them with far less than nothing; all of that time and salary lost, plus the costs of replacing you (whether because they've fired you, or because they've burned you out entirely). Plus costs to reputation, which harms client relationships and hiring both.

Being able to say "I told you so" later doesn't really help anyone; but if you can suggest a better path (drastically reducing scope, extending or segmenting the delivery timeline, or even canceling the project), then you should be able to get someone to listen.

If your boss really grasps where things are going (and that this isn't just "the usual developer griping"), then he'll get credit as well for saving the situation, and you both benefit.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#104

Post by mgkimsal »

aws_ls wrote: post #97
mgkimsal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed on emergency fund. I'd probably even add that, once you get to 6 months, shoot for 9 or 12. Still don't have FU money, but have had periods where I've had 2 years of minimal expenses saved up, which I'd never had before (and don't now, but that's a different story). It will give you a different perspective and some mental freedom. I still stressed about work/projects, but never like I had before. Part of that,…

Very important point. I think the older you are, and particularly if you have dependents, you need a longer period of savings. Couple TV programs (e.g. Suze Orman show) advise to have at least 8 months salary worth of savings. I think if we have that bare minimum of comfort (i.e. 3/8/more salary months), then after that we should try to focus on being healthy. Working more and compromising health is a very bad deal.…

No, you're spot on. I picked up running a few years ago, although i've slipped back to not doing it as much (really, I need to take time to go get some new shoes!) But I aim for at least a 5k per week, more if possible. While that'a a pretty low bar compared to a lot of runners, it's far more than I did years ago (nothing), and is something. I have to keep reminding myself that yes, 'something' is better than nothing.

I hadn't seen Orman recommend the 8 months, but it's definitely understandable. Whenever that runway goes down for any reason, I get a bit nervous. Thinking this way has pushed me to reduce the monthly outgoings where possible; reduce cell phone plan, cut satellite at home, etc. None of these are necessarily life altering, but saving say, $200/month means that an extra few $k savings adds more months to the runway.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#105

Post by Disruptive_Dave »

Here's another sucky thing that can happen - you unconsciously adjust and adapt to the conditions that cause burnout and end up accepting them as "the way it is / life." It happens slowly and without notice. There is no "rock bottom" so you're never forced to confront the situation head on. It's like death by a thousand paper cuts.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#107

Post by [deleted] »

nul_byte wrote: post #33

I hope I don't sound conceited here, but this was me and I resolved the issue. Meditation. 15 minutes a day is all it takes, and I get myself to that place of not giving a care in the world and feeling all the stress just drop away. The only way I can describe it as, is like when you go on a beach holiday and you're lying in the sun, not sure what day it is (Saturday, Wednesday?) and feeling content. Its now become v…

[deleted]

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#108

Post by ryandrake »

aws_ls wrote: post #97
mgkimsal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed on emergency fund. I'd probably even add that, once you get to 6 months, shoot for 9 or 12. Still don't have FU money, but have had periods where I've had 2 years of minimal expenses saved up, which I'd never had before (and don't now, but that's a different story). It will give you a different perspective and some mental freedom. I still stressed about work/projects, but never like I had before. Part of that,…

Very important point. I think the older you are, and particularly if you have dependents, you need a longer period of savings. Couple TV programs (e.g. Suze Orman show) advise to have at least 8 months salary worth of savings. I think if we have that bare minimum of comfort (i.e. 3/8/more salary months), then after that we should try to focus on being healthy. Working more and compromising health is a very bad deal.…

Yep, fortunately I had about 3 months, but in retrospect it was too close for comfort and I should have had more saved (was at about the worst time for me--just added six figures of debt due to grad school). Whether it's 3 months or 6 months or 12 months, the point remains: If you can't afford to lose your job, you will do crazy things and work insane hours just to keep it.

The other thing to consider, which only applies to crazy countries like the USA, is that losing your job also means losing your health insurance, which can be a significant risk to your life. Sure, there's COBRA, but it's super-expensive, and should be factored in when calculating how much you need in savings.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#109

Post by mch82 »

tequila_shot wrote: post #88
mgkimsal wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that I'll be made a scapegoat if the project fails. Not trying to be rude here, but what is the worst outcome here? What does being made a scapegoat actually mean? Will you be fired? Deported? Or just... have people at work making you feel worse than you already do? Honest question - not trying to trivialize your situation at all.

I'm thinking I'll be fired, and then because staying in US without an employer even for a day is illegal, I'll be forced to go back.

Can you enroll in a community college or graduate degree program and switch to a student visa, refresh your skills, and find a new sponsor?

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#110

Post by sp527 »

isuckatcoding wrote: post #101
sp527 wrote: post #92

One of the best things I've ever done for myself: quit my job. Stating this not to brag but to make my point: 8 months ago I was clearing north of $140k plus options at a top tech co (plus all the usual perks/full benefits) at age 23. The path was probably open for a management position and easily over 200K per year by age 30. I hated it. The work was agonizingly mundane. The environment was intellectually letheragic…

I am pretty much in the same boat as you were at your job. I wish I could quit straight up but financially it wouldn't be responsible. Been searching for a job since February but my shitty technical interview skills and lack of experience keep getting me rejected. Lol I am literally willing to "code" HTML at this point. BTW 140k at 23?? Jeez I am the same age as you and I am getting payed just below 100k and I work i…

Keep at it and don't give up! My guess is you're trying to interview at better companies that have difficult hiring processes and that's great. You improve at interviewing as you go along. Make sure you study/practice as many hours per day as you can manage.

I got lucky with that comp package since I had been an intern the previous summer and they wanted me back - gave me a lot of room to negotiate.

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