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Burnout and Mental Health

stephaniehurlburt.com

91–100 of 118 posts

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#91

This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (if that's still possible?). I don't even care about memories anymore - I'm in survival mode; I'm just a bullet moving towards its target. It's like I've been running through a tunnel as fast possible for a long time and I can finally just see the light at the e…

If you take some days off: Are you feeling better? Than burning out is your main problem.

If you actually start to feel worse when having time to relax, that hints at different problems like depression or anxiety.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#92
One of the best things I've ever done for myself: quit my job.

Stating this not to brag but to make my point: 8 months ago I was clearing north of $140k plus options at a top tech co (plus all the usual perks/full benefits) at age 23. The path was probably open for a management position and easily over 200K per year by age 30.

I hated it. The work was agonizingly mundane. The environment was intellectually letheragic (a tremendous irony given the pedigree of my coworkers). I was pulling long hours to write code that I knew had little real value. And everywhere I looked I saw constraints and barriers to doing something meaningful. Eventually it got to the point where I started having a lot of anxiety and even moodiness and feeings of hopelessness.

I felt like what I was forcing myself to become was suffocating the person I wanted to be, deep down. So I asked myself, honestly, if the money was worth trading off so much of my life. My answer was 'no'. However, I think I might be an outlier in that regard. A lot of other people place a high value on experiences, socializing, buying nice things, etc. There are only three things I can ever remember giving me genuine contentment: building complex things, learning (reading, programming, lectures), and hanging with a handful of very good friends. Turns out working a job was diametrically opposed to my main priorities in life. And the weird thing is I'd known that for a very long time before having a decisive 'epiphany' about it. I'd been running from that truth because it was so contradictory, relative to what society tells us we should do and value. This line of reasoning was essential in clearing the final mental hurdle between myself and the decision to pursue entrepreneurship. I had to reconcile myself with having less in the immediate term and the likelihood of long-run financial consequences in taking a break from working in the industry. I acknowledge that this isn't possible for everyone. Some people have dependents, mortgages, and other obligations. But if you can somehow make the numbers work and don't find the luxuries of a six figure salary as compelling as the opportunities you trade away, then you owe it to yourself to stop and think about it.

As for what happens on the other side: freedom is a beautiful thing. I'm now convinced there's 'one easy trick' to becoming a 10x engineer and that's quitting your job. You learn out of necessity when you have few resources and no fallbacks. It also seems obvious now in hindsight that the surest way to realize your full potential is to work on your own terms building something you care about. I get to see friends more often than I have in years and I'm working with two of my best friends on a startup. I've also been exercising consistently and eating better. But by far the most energizing change in my lifestyle has been my improved sleeping habits. Imagine a world in which you don't have to set an alarm clock and always get enough sleep - that's what you get to do when you work on your own terms. I can't be sure about this but I feel like I might actually be improving in mental acuity as well, which I would attribute to getting more sleep and the compounding effects of expanding my skillset (full stack engineering, PM, marketing). I think the phenomenon of interdisciplinary study leading to improved cognition is fairly well-studued and I'm now realizing that entrepreneurship is at least a good approximation of that. I furthermore spend several hours per day in flow because there are no meetings, emails or other interruptions.

All this adds up to a lifestyle that's so dramatically superior to where I was before that I have absolutely no intention of going back, if I can avoid it. Sorry for the poorly-constructed stream of consciousness. I intend to write a blog post on the subject at some point, but wanted to get this down here in case it helps anyone trying to make a decision. If you're going through burnout and feel like your personal narrative resembles mine, I hope you'll take some time to consider quitting to work on something that gives you purpose and that might have value to others. Regardless, I'll end with the handful of things I needed to keep hearing back when I was burning out: there IS an other side and you WILL get there. It's okay if you have to quit because the safety net for software engineers is incredible and your health is comparatively fragile. By far the most important thing for you to do is let the good people in your life be there to help you get through this.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#93
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Should I look for a particular type of therapist?

I'm not a medical professional but a fellow sufferer, so you should probably take this all with a grain of salt. It's more than likely you'll see a psychologist who will administer cognitive behavioural therapy; essentially the rational examination of your thinking as described above. Although specific treatment modalities somewhat depend on the nature and severity of your anxiety disorder. If your anxiety is more 'p…

I'd like to offer a counterpoint to your views on medication. For those who suffer from acute, short-term anxiety over a specific event, for example an exam or an interview, beta blockers such as propranolol can be really helpful - as I understand it they interrupt the fight-or-flight adrenaline response to stop you working yourself into a panic. They were wonderful for me during exams and graduate interviews, and now I barely ever need them. I still suffer from chronic anxiety, but that acute performance anxiety is not a problem for me anymore.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#94

This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (if that's still possible?). I don't even care about memories anymore - I'm in survival mode; I'm just a bullet moving towards its target. It's like I've been running through a tunnel as fast possible for a long time and I can finally just see the light at the e…

I had chronic rhinitis, probably linked to air pollution (near Paris). I have done a checkup of my sleep quality. It has shown a slight Sleep apnea disorder. I am taking corticoids (nasal spray) since 2 month. My nose is a lot better, but the main improvement in about my memory and my concentration.

I think memory is very important for programming. I can work a lot faster since I take this treatment.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#95
post #24

This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (if that's still possible?). I don't even care about memories anymore - I'm in survival mode; I'm just a bullet moving towards its target. It's like I've been running through a tunnel as fast possible for a long time and I can finally just see the light at the e…

Take 2 weeks off and buy an airplane ticket asap. It helps to have something to look forward to. Go to a different country, a change of scenery, new cultures to explore are always a great way to take your mind off the daily grind.

This can be good advice for some. It might not be choice for someone with depression. Deeper problems are not solved by a vacation.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#96
>I realize I don't need to have caffeine to work.

Impressive. Once I said to my coworker that I'm not drinking a coffee because I can't sleep at night. She replied she drinks coffee because she can't stay awake in the daytimes without coffee.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely important (and often underrated) to build up a good emergency fund to help in this type of situation. It's not the same as FU money—more of a security blanket of at least 3 months (hopefully 6 months plus) of liquid savings (checking, savings, CDs... not stocks, not real estate). Ever since I finally saved that amount, it's helped a LOT with that feeling... If I lose my job today, I'll have enough pers…

Agreed on emergency fund. I'd probably even add that, once you get to 6 months, shoot for 9 or 12. Still don't have FU money, but have had periods where I've had 2 years of minimal expenses saved up, which I'd never had before (and don't now, but that's a different story). It will give you a different perspective and some mental freedom. I still stressed about work/projects, but never like I had before. Part of that,…

Very important point. I think the older you are, and particularly if you have dependents, you need a longer period of savings. Couple TV programs (e.g. Suze Orman show) advise to have at least 8 months salary worth of savings.

I think if we have that bare minimum of comfort (i.e. 3/8/more salary months), then after that we should try to focus on being healthy. Working more and compromising health is a very bad deal. Even getting over-anxious about things leads to stress (which can lead to bad health).

Most of us programmers like our jobs anyway, provided work/managerial environment is not too bad. If we can just do it in a healthy way (YMMV, of course. 100+ is healthy for Elon Musk, and 40/50 for me).

I think even working towards an early retirement, may also not be a good thing, as some people try to. I have seen people age very fast after they retire. So if we enjoy our work, and are paid a healthy amount, and have decent savings. Should look to live a good life, right in the present. And not worry too much about long term.

Long term: I think for most programmer-entrepreneurs long term is more like a big exit after a few (3-5) hard years of work. The problem happens when realistically only a few of us can have such good luck. So being realistic, we should look at returns for the long haul (10 year periods). So staying healthy and alive, is very much needed, if and when we have the big exit.

I personally, started long(ish) distance running, to attune myself for a long haul work wise. At present work only around 40 hours (M-F). Sat/Sun only when needed (which is rarely). Don't compromise exercise for work. Get it done in the morning itself, before I have a chance to log in.

I also try to minimize the stress. What's a business without setbacks? So there are setbacks, e.g. partners breaking/not-renewing contracts . But I try to think of these things as just -ve events in a series of various +ve/-ve events. There are technical worries as well, e.g. EC2 volumes running out of disk space, within the next archival cycle, and increasing them fsck/resize2fs them, burning them in the image.

But also life goes on...in the present.

PS: Sorry, for not being specific, and randomly articulating even tangential things to the topic at hand. Hope its not too bad. :-)

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#98
I suppose we all have stories to tell and advices/tips to share; I too have gone through intense burnout, and initially it was just too hard to deal with.

Eventually, it turned out what really worked for me (it also worked with some friends who tried this) is to just do something else for a change.

Work on small, contained projects - maybe on unrelated problem domains, and consider changing your habits and do more things for fun, but whatever it is you do, don't try to 'force' yourself to do it. Working out at the gym work wonders. Getting some good night's sleep also helps.

I would also snap out of it after a few days. This never failed me, but I realize that it may not work for everyone.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#99
post #48

This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (if that's still possible?). I don't even care about memories anymore - I'm in survival mode; I'm just a bullet moving towards its target. It's like I've been running through a tunnel as fast possible for a long time and I can finally just see the light at the e…

What's your burn rate? That is, if you stop doing any income-producing activities, how long can you live off of savings? Considering burning through them all for a long period of no work. Or if you think you can manage for longer, try to get to the magic number where 4% of your investments (assuming at least 5% annual ROI) covers your expenses, thus making you 'retired'. Recovery (at least partial) is still possible,…

Some years ago (6 or so, from memory) I realised I'd been consulting in a role for too long and gone stale and had lost my creativity (not burned out, but approaching that state). I had just enough money to survive for 6 months so I stopped work, chilled and then started to play with tech again. I returned to consulting after 6 months and everything immediately picked up again.

Years before (11 years ago I think) I left a start-up completely burned out, having just bought an apartment, with no spare money (all my cash went into the purchase). The start-up had run out of salary, I was angry and wasn't in a clear space. I bailed the UK and walked around Morocco for a month on my own (I got very bored of my own company), on the very last of my money. When I returned, very refreshed, I started my consulting career. That break was essential to let myself recover. It surprised me how much the rest of the world hadn't changed in that month, whilst my outlook was totally different (happy, positive and ready for the challenges ahead).

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#100
For anyone currently trying to self-medicate with illegal drugs. Please, please get help. There is no shame. Im a recovered heroin addict. I lost everything and am currently rebuilding.

I started on the opiates and benzos to self-medicate. I had all the symptoms, panic attacks, getting really ill whenever i took a break. Complete lack of perspective. Just stress from all sides, work, relationships, bills. Insane working hours for years. So, of course as my tolerance rose so did the dosage and strength.

CBT, therapy, meditation, exercise and stable routine are what i have utilised to get myself out of what i would call, without any sense of over-dramatising, hell.

It is not worth it. Please, please get help. There is no shame.

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