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Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#201

Post by ZeroGravitas »

Nursie wrote: post #21

There's a lot of clutching at straws going on at the moment. People coming out with political or legal theories, trying to interpret David Cameron's failure to immediately declare leaving under article 50 as kicking the whole issue into the long grass etc etc. This is the latest, like others it's more of an exercise in denial than it is in reality. Many of these things could come to pass, it's true, but each one carr…

Boris Johnson stated this morning that he didn't think immigration anxiety was why people voted for Brexit.

This may well come as a surprise to many Brexit voters. It certainly sets out his stall for what he hopes to achieve, presumably he'll happily sign up for mass immigration as long as the finance industry gets opt-outs from EU fraud investigations or whatever his backers want to get out of this. Re-invigorating northern England's former industrial heartlands is nowhere on his list, and the anger of the people who live there can in no way harm the Conservative party in the UKs current parliamentary system.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#202

Post by Nursie »

5h wrote: post #176
Nursie wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intent of the parent post was clear, it was calling my thinking racist and xenophobic. At the very least this is unhelpful, and devalues the impact of such words.

The parent post wasn't replying to you - so I'd argue it wasn't calling your thinking anything whatsoever. While I'd agree such terms are being carelessly banded about, there's no need to go looking for reasons to be offended here.

Follow it back up the chain, paying close attention to which users said what, you'll see the post concerned was a reply to me.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#203

Post by DanBC »

dazc wrote: post #200
DanBC wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at Gloucestershire. Overall it's not particularly diverse. One of the larger towns (Cheltenham, pop about 110,000) is 96% White British in last census. Nearby Gloucester is much more diverse - one street has over 70 different languages spoken as a first language, and the school in the UK (but outside London) with most different languages spoken as a first language is in Gloucester. So, while I believe the UK is…

If you ask ten random people in the UK to tell you where Gloucestershire is I would be surprised if more than three of them would be able to?

They'd know it's roughly south west, near wales.

But that makes your point stronger, no? That even in this small (by population, not geographical) rural county there's still a mix of not much diversity and lots of diversity.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#204

Post by Nursie »

ProxCoques wrote: post #196
collyw wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It annoys me as well, and I was in favor of staying in. Its the same when anyone raises an objection to immigration, they are almost immediately silenced by calls of racism or xenophobia. Thats no way to have a proper debate about anything.

"anyone raises an objection to immigration, they are almost immediately silenced by calls of racism or xenophobia" The probelm is that those who raise objections to immigration never seem to have anything constructive to say after that. So if you're not a racist or xenophbe, how about we have a discussion about allowing freedom of movement but actually SOLVING the problems that have been brought about by it? The EU a…

Why does the solution have to involve freedom of movement?

It's not xenophobic to want to curb the net migration number.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#205

Post by Nursie »

DanBC wrote: post #186
collyw wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It annoys me as well, and I was in favor of staying in. Its the same when anyone raises an objection to immigration, they are almost immediately silenced by calls of racism or xenophobia. Thats no way to have a proper debate about anything.

Accusations of xenophobia are hard to avoid when the anti-immigration debate has been led by the National Front ("Go home pakis"); the BNP (Nazi salutes); Britain First (an incoherent but unequivocally fascist ideology). We've already seen a rise in xenophobic, racist, hate crime. To use UKIPs line, why aren't moderate anti-immigrationists condemning this violence?

They are, see my other posts in this thread.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#206

Post by Nursie »

cromulent wrote: post #182
Nursie wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I meant in Australia, I don't think another GG intervention would work there, even if the law hadn't been adjusted. Not sure exactly what might happen here.

If the situation was repeated (a PM who cannot pass supply bills and won't follow advice to dissolve), then the GG would absolutely do the same thing again. Why would they not? What has changed?

Public opinion is already outraged on that count. Australia would likely become a republic within weeks.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#207

Post by ProxCoques »

Nursie wrote: post #204
ProxCoques wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"anyone raises an objection to immigration, they are almost immediately silenced by calls of racism or xenophobia" The probelm is that those who raise objections to immigration never seem to have anything constructive to say after that. So if you're not a racist or xenophbe, how about we have a discussion about allowing freedom of movement but actually SOLVING the problems that have been brought about by it? The EU a…

Why does the solution have to involve freedom of movement? It's not xenophobic to want to curb the net migration number.

It has to because the EU are going to demand it as a condition of entry to the EEA. Not demanding it will invite any-European movements in other EU countries like Italy and even France to demand out. When it comes to Britain's future economy, the EU holds most of cards.

And even if UK doesn't remain in EEA, immigration will be a fact of life. Hell, half of all immigrants in the UK don't even come from the EU!

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#208

Post by dazc »

DanBC wrote: post #203
dazc wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ask ten random people in the UK to tell you where Gloucestershire is I would be surprised if more than three of them would be able to?

They'd know it's roughly south west, near wales. But that makes your point stronger, no? That even in this small (by population, not geographical) rural county there's still a mix of not much diversity and lots of diversity.

I guess it does, yes.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#209

Post by cromulent »

Nursie wrote: post #206
cromulent wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the situation was repeated (a PM who cannot pass supply bills and won't follow advice to dissolve), then the GG would absolutely do the same thing again. Why would they not? What has changed?

Public opinion is already outraged on that count. Australia would likely become a republic within weeks.

I guess we have different understandings of what a constitution is and how it functions.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#210

Post by ProxCoques »

GordonS wrote: post #197
ProxCoques wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble with that "democratically expressed opinon" was that a) it was a 2% majority b) 36% of eligible voters voted for leaving, and c) some proportion of those may well have either not undertood what they were voting for, or were misled. That, combined with the fact that things are currently going to hell in a hand basket (look at the FTSE250, comprised of business that make most their money within the UK, as o…

> c) some proportion of those may well have either not undertood what they were voting for, or were misled. You could make the same argument about those that voted to remain. > That, combined with the fact that things are currently going to hell in a hand basket (look at the FTSE250, comprised of business that make most their money within the UK, as opposed to the FTSE100 which doesn't), makes the out vote at best qu…

Indeed - nobody knows anything about the future so its' a moot point.

And agreed the UK's short-term econonomy is pretty much the least of its problems. But do you have a scenario in which it ends up peachy keen for the UK and Europe by about 2020? I sure as hell can't think of one.

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