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YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

arstechnica.com

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Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#71

Post by tamana »

JonFish85 wrote: post #58
matt2000 wrote: post #32

I don't understand how the math on basic income is supposed to work. If we gave this amount of money to every person in the US it would cost $7.2 Trillion dollars, roughly double the entire US federal budget. How is this supposed to work? Do only certain people qualify for basic income?

I've found that doing the math absolutely doesn't factor into this. That's where it falls apart--it's not the most efficient if you're giving money to people only to have to reclaim it from 90% of them. It's a fun thought experiment but at a national scale the math really falls apart because there isn't an external source of funding to grab money from.

Did you know that the US has Social Security and Medicaid and taxes already, taking money and paying money?

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#72

Post by tamana »

giovannibajo1 wrote: post #37
matt2000 wrote: post #32

I don't understand how the math on basic income is supposed to work. If we gave this amount of money to every person in the US it would cost $7.2 Trillion dollars, roughly double the entire US federal budget. How is this supposed to work? Do only certain people qualify for basic income?

I am not familiar with YC project, but many similar discussions in Europe focus around the "guaranteed minimum income", which basically means that you give money only to people that don't have an income. You need to decide a good threshold for that, as you don't want to promote unemployment.

If you set the minimum too high and the GDP drops due to non productivity, it will cause inflation, effectively lowering the minimum income amount in real terms.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#73

Post by noir_lord »

gjkood wrote: post #17

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Along with the daily fish, does it makes sense to provide some sort of vocational training that an otherwise healthy person can take advantage of? If a person was not able to take advantage of early education for whatever reason, but is currently physically healthy, there is still opportunity to provide for himself and…

> Maybe even a reversal of the automation movement in favor of using basic labor for many repetitive tasks in order to achieve this altruistic goal.

That would be horrific, doing "work for works sake" knowing that the only reason you are doing it instead of a machine is because someone decided you needed the nobleness of having a 'job'.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#74

Post by dev1n »

awt wrote: post #46

Why not just have a YC charity?

Good question. I believe the thinking behind the UBI experiment is that YC wants to specifically do an experiment. Not start a charity. Maybe down the line YC would consider starting a charity but I don't think that's in their gameplan. This is specifically to answer a very explicit question. Charities don't normally do that sort of thing.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#75

Post by Rinum »

christinecha wrote: post #61

I really want to know how the conversation went with the folks in the control group. "Hey, we're doing a study where we give money to a bunch of people... Not you, though." Ha!

The control group could be blinded (they're unaware what is being studied).

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#76

Post by saulrh »

ozmbie wrote: post #68
gjkood wrote: post #17

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Along with the daily fish, does it makes sense to provide some sort of vocational training that an otherwise healthy person can take advantage of? If a person was not able to take advantage of early education for whatever reason, but is currently physically healthy, there is still opportunity to provide for himself and…

What happens when we create fishing robots that do the work for all of men?

Answer: Life gets better. We have proof of this from history. When was the last time anybody here ground their own flour or washed their laundry using a rock and a river?

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#77

Post by chickenfries »

tim333 wrote: post #27
chickenfries wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and I think it's particularly necessary for them to improve the messaging around basic income in order for it to be politically successful.

On the other hand it allows YC to experiment and do stuff the politicians couldn't get away with. I quite like that they can say what they think rather than editing it to be politically appealing.

Who do you think could implement a universal basic income, besides a government? Implementing a UBI at a national level would be a monumental political task. The politics matter, even at this stage.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#78

Post by TeMPOraL »

tomjen3 wrote: post #52
pinkythepig wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic premise is that everyone is taxed some percentage of their income and then they are paid back some flat amount. For those (probably) in the middle class, this tax/payment will be exactly the same. You pay X per year and gain X per year in benefits. For those who make less than that, they will end up earning more from the payment than they pay in to the system. Those who earn more money than that will pay mo…

On the pay side, sure. Presumably the IRS would still check that I payed my (now presumably higher) tax payments? So you don't really save anything there.

You presumably save the whole pay side of bureaucracy - some people argue that this alone could finance a significant fraction of BI.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#79

Post by melling »

ozmbie wrote: post #68
gjkood wrote: post #17

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Along with the daily fish, does it makes sense to provide some sort of vocational training that an otherwise healthy person can take advantage of? If a person was not able to take advantage of early education for whatever reason, but is currently physically healthy, there is still opportunity to provide for himself and…

What happens when we create fishing robots that do the work for all of men?

You make it sound as if we are going to run out of work? We can always increase the level of education then have more research scientists and engineers, for example. Imagine if we did 10x the amount of R&D.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#80

Post by ilaksh »

youngButEager wrote: post #47

Can I make a suggestion? I have several acquaintances who work in the trades (carpentry, house framing, fence building, concrete driveways/sidewalks/porches building, window/door installers, painters, etc.). Buying and rehabbing real estate over the past several years, I've met a lot of these folks. Most of their ability to earn a living wage has been decimated by unchecked immigration. So I suggest we start there --…

Its not the immigration its the illegal pay and lack of benefits that they are given. The construction industry is based on underpaying migrants. If you have been rehabing homes then you certainly took advantage of this too.

Look in the mirror.

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