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YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

arstechnica.com

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Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#41

Post by harigov »

matt2000 wrote: post #32

I don't understand how the math on basic income is supposed to work. If we gave this amount of money to every person in the US it would cost $7.2 Trillion dollars, roughly double the entire US federal budget. How is this supposed to work? Do only certain people qualify for basic income?

Imagine that the money comes from no where. We have capabilities to offer people some things that they probably aren't capable of buying. Like say better food, more electronics, better homes, etc., Instead of expecting everyone to work to "earn" their living, we can instead guarantee some basic standards of living by giving everyone money that comes from no where. It just requires us to rethink productivity and economics. If a robot works instead of human, it is still productive and contributing to economy. If it were human, the work itself will have some value and so does the output of that work. With robots, we are only counting the output and not the work itself. What if we were to incorporate that into finances and pay that as basic income? It doesn't matter that the money is essentially created from nowhere, as long as there is some productive work taking place to account for that.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#42

Post by tim333 »

loceng wrote: post #24
CPLX wrote: post #4

> "Overall the idea is to take money we make from YC [and], rather than all of the partners cashing out... putting it into research," Krisiloff told Ars. "I think that there’s a culture at YC that just making money isn’t that interesting." I do understand the intended meaning of that sentence, and clearly it's more than admirable that these people are putting their money where their mouth is, but I really wish SV peo…

This experimenting may give them insight into what life and how behaviours present themselves when people are being supported, and then give them a heads-up knowing where people are then willing to spend their cash - on necessities as well as extra spending money (if they are given it). That's invaluable data and if they can use profits from their ecosystem to support a growing community/ecosystem that supports this,…

>In reality it does mean giving away a % of earnings

Not necessarily. Part of the reason for this research is figuring what to do if the robots replace us for the most part. In that situation wages would likely be low and a lot of the value would move to the market cap of the leading tech stocks that controlled things. The government could tax that, as cgt or wealth tax or similar, rather than wages.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#43

Post by pinkythepig »

matt2000 wrote: post #32

I don't understand how the math on basic income is supposed to work. If we gave this amount of money to every person in the US it would cost $7.2 Trillion dollars, roughly double the entire US federal budget. How is this supposed to work? Do only certain people qualify for basic income?

The basic premise is that everyone is taxed some percentage of their income and then they are paid back some flat amount. For those (probably) in the middle class, this tax/payment will be exactly the same. You pay X per year and gain X per year in benefits. For those who make less than that, they will end up earning more from the payment than they pay in to the system. Those who earn more money than that will pay more into the system than they receive back in benefits.

>Do only certain people qualify for basic income?

The good part about it is that everyone qualifies for the exact same payment, this reduces the cost of administering the program significantly. No need to fill out forms, check if you are covered, prove you make under a certain amount, or talk to 20 different agencies, the only thing that has to be confirmed is that you are a legal resident.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#44

Post by Avshalom »

LargeCompanies wrote: post #35

Can you live off of 2k in San Fran?

Oakland, and: probably not very well. but you can still work, you can stop spending every day stressed about how your entry level retail job isn't giving you enough hours, or you can afford to set two or three days of the week as "unavailable and take some classes. You can stop worrying that taking the day off to interview for a job will be the difference between making rent that month.

Although for reference 2k a month before taxes is the equivalent of a $12/hr 40hr/wk job. I don't live in Oakland but here in Albuquerque thats considered a pretty good job.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#47

Post by youngButEager »

Can I make a suggestion?

I have several acquaintances who work in the trades (carpentry, house framing, fence building, concrete driveways/sidewalks/porches building, window/door installers, painters, etc.).

Buying and rehabbing real estate over the past several years, I've met a lot of these folks.

Most of their ability to earn a living wage has been decimated by unchecked immigration.

So I suggest we start there -- give all the tradespeople in our area, who were born here and have now seen their livelihoods decimated -- a living wage.

That way, we can tell them "yes we've fully endorsed unchecked migration, and your jobs are gone, but here -- have this living wage."

What a nice gesture on the part of we the elite!

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#48

Post by daveguy »

ratsmack wrote: post #25
daveguy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former. The latter is a racist caricature of welfare.

There was no race stated anywhere in the comment, so I believe you meant to use a word something like "stereotypical".

We're grownups here. It doesn't require an explicit reference to race to read between the lines. That stereotype is a historically racist get-out-our-kind-of-voters code.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#49

Post by kiba »

chirau wrote: post #23
pekko wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See http://blog.ycombinator.com/moving-forward-on-basic-income : this one-year study is just a pilot, it works as a preparation for a longer-term one.

What if they don't tell the people when the income is going to stop coming in?

Doesn't seems all that ethical thing to do even though it would give a better picture of how it would work.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#50

Post by rexreed »

mozumder wrote: post #31
CPLX wrote: post #4

> "Overall the idea is to take money we make from YC [and], rather than all of the partners cashing out... putting it into research," Krisiloff told Ars. "I think that there’s a culture at YC that just making money isn’t that interesting." I do understand the intended meaning of that sentence, and clearly it's more than admirable that these people are putting their money where their mouth is, but I really wish SV peo…

I'm just hoping someone wins a $1 bet - the usual amount - at the end of this experiment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjkdynBFHuQ and actually, I've always, always loved this scene since I was a kid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLySXTIBS3c - takes some thinking to learn how the markets were cornered and how they made all that money shorting OJ commodities.

But your point here is well taken - are these rich folks placing bets and toying with poor folks? Hmm.

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