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YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

arstechnica.com

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Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#21

Post by WoodenChair »

gjkood wrote: post #17

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Along with the daily fish, does it makes sense to provide some sort of vocational training that an otherwise healthy person can take advantage of? If a person was not able to take advantage of early education for whatever reason, but is currently physically healthy, there is still opportunity to provide for himself and…

> Maybe even a reversal of the automation movement in favor of using basic labor for many repetitive tasks in order to achieve this altruistic goal.

Because that's really what we want in the 21st century: human machine cogs like we had in the 19th. No, let's let robots do robot things and we don't need humans to "compete" with them. Let's let humans do more human (and humane) oriented tasks.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#22

Post by laksjd »

gjkood wrote: post #17

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Along with the daily fish, does it makes sense to provide some sort of vocational training that an otherwise healthy person can take advantage of? If a person was not able to take advantage of early education for whatever reason, but is currently physically healthy, there is still opportunity to provide for himself and…

There are already lots of great free (or very cheap) ways to educate yourself but all of them require time and energy. If you spend most of your time and energy working an awful job just to survive you can't take advantage of these opportunities.

Take away the need to invest time and energy into basic survival and you can suddenly take advantage of a lot of cool things that were previously not accessible to you.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#23

Post by chirau »

pekko wrote: post #20
jasonwen wrote: post #9

One year is too limited in my opinion. If you want to see what people will do with basic income, you have to give them the feeling the money is near infinite. One year looks to me its not enough to drop everything, as you will know it will soon come to an end. The paychological barrier for me would be at least 5+ years. Then again if I know it will come to an end in xx years, I will feel more inclined to work harder.…

See http://blog.ycombinator.com/moving-forward-on-basic-income : this one-year study is just a pilot, it works as a preparation for a longer-term one.

What if they don't tell the people when the income is going to stop coming in?

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#24

Post by loceng »

CPLX wrote: post #4

> "Overall the idea is to take money we make from YC [and], rather than all of the partners cashing out... putting it into research," Krisiloff told Ars. "I think that there’s a culture at YC that just making money isn’t that interesting." I do understand the intended meaning of that sentence, and clearly it's more than admirable that these people are putting their money where their mouth is, but I really wish SV peo…

This experimenting may give them insight into what life and how behaviours present themselves when people are being supported, and then give them a heads-up knowing where people are then willing to spend their cash - on necessities as well as extra spending money (if they are given it).

That's invaluable data and if they can use profits from their ecosystem to support a growing community/ecosystem that supports this, and then discover or create increasing productivity within that community then the model could replicate and be adopted by wider regions.

In reality it does mean giving away a % of earnings to the masses - like a tax, however if that % is less than what people pay on average currently in taxes to government, and the productivity level is higher - then it should naturally compete and takeover (save status quo systems trying to block and cause friction).

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#25

Post by ratsmack »

daveguy wrote: post #15
karmicthreat wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might skew it, but YC is probably trying to answer a more fundamental question. If people are provided a minimum lifestyle what will they do? I don't think anyone really knows if it will be a golden age of entrepreneurs and self improvement. Or if people will just sit on the couch, have kids till they can't afford them, become addicted to drugs.

The former. The latter is a racist caricature of welfare.

There was no race stated anywhere in the comment, so I believe you meant to use a word something like "stereotypical".

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#26

Post by mtanski »

karmicthreat wrote: post #7
TheCowboy wrote: post #3

Would individuals be restricted from using any government social welfare programs during this period? Many advocates propose funding basic income by disbanding current safety nets. If recipients are living in public housing, collecting food stamps, accepting federal student loans, or any other form of indirect government aid, then it skews the results.

It might skew it, but YC is probably trying to answer a more fundamental question. If people are provided a minimum lifestyle what will they do? I don't think anyone really knows if it will be a golden age of entrepreneurs and self improvement. Or if people will just sit on the couch, have kids till they can't afford them, become addicted to drugs.

We've seen string free money transfer already work in some places. There's been a few trials an follow up on that, although not in Western countries.

What I'm really curious to personally answer is: what would happen if everybody would be guaranteed a basic income? What kind of problems would it introduce? Would the new minimum income become a poor tool because of corresponding price increases (to capture that income)? Or would it work well long term?

That's why I'd love to see a small country. Preferably not Switzerland or Nordic. Because they've been able to create programs that others have a hard time replicating. A country with a more mixed population (religions, races, education levels).

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#27

Post by tim333 »

chickenfries wrote: post #6
CPLX wrote: post #4

> "Overall the idea is to take money we make from YC [and], rather than all of the partners cashing out... putting it into research," Krisiloff told Ars. "I think that there’s a culture at YC that just making money isn’t that interesting." I do understand the intended meaning of that sentence, and clearly it's more than admirable that these people are putting their money where their mouth is, but I really wish SV peo…

Indeed, and I think it's particularly necessary for them to improve the messaging around basic income in order for it to be politically successful.

On the other hand it allows YC to experiment and do stuff the politicians couldn't get away with. I quite like that they can say what they think rather than editing it to be politically appealing.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#29

Post by dclowd9901 »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #8

One aspect that I've not heard discussed is the likelihood that a portion of those being granted a basic income will be exploited for their new-found cash. Has this been considered at YC and if so, what are their approaches to minimizing it?

This is why I wish the sample size was bigger, closer to that magic 2000 person populace that gives a relatively random cross section. I just don't think they're going to get the value they need out of this limited experiment. 2000*24000 = 48million... I'm sure they have that kind of scratch laying around.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#30

Post by secfirstmd »

I think this is to be welcomed but I would also be interested if YC published a study on the tax arrangements used by its companies. Inequality is heavily linked to reduced government big budgets caused the culture and abuse of offshore trusts, the double Irish etc etc. Minimum income is important for the future but governments have to be actually able to collect the revenue in the first place...
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