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California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

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Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#241

Post by superswordfish »

hx87 wrote: post #229
superswordfish wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The death penalty, and heavy incarceration with atrocious conditions.

Most Texans, let alone Californians fleeing high prices, don't have to worry about such things. Besides, the death penalty isn't exactly a negative if the alternative is life in (a Texas) prison.

Perhaps I'm alone in deriving small comfort in the knowledge that even if I were framed or otherwise unjustly convicted for the most atrocious of crimes, this would not be my fate (though the federal government showed in MA, for instance, with the Boston Marathon bomber, that they will override humane state law; you're never truly safe in the US). The knowledge that a gross miscarriage of justice could land me in "hell on earth" was troubling in CA (death row in TX and CA are quite different beasts on the other hand).

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#242

Post by HillaryBriss »

bagels wrote: post #197
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #167

Anyone else alarmed that a doctor was leaving because the rent was too high? A doctor is one of the jobs that is expected to pay top dollar in American society. If a doctor can't make it in the Bay Area, who's going to cut your hair, serve your beer, or mow your lawn? If wages don't rise in line with skyrocketing living costs, then the only alternative is a permenantly impoverished underclass. People of the Bay Area:…

What else can people do? The choices I see (with no mention of efficacy) are: leave, demand better pay, lobby for cohesive regional zoning and transportation planning that meets growth.

> lobby for cohesive regional zoning and transportation planning that meets growth

I agree that this is the right answer in theory. The challenge is that, in practice, by the time the critically important rail line or subway or high speed bus lane (or whatever) is built and put into operation, you're halfway to retirement and your kids are out of high school.

So, practically speaking, a lot of people conclude that the only effective voting is the kind done with the feet.

Too often state and local governments are not capable of doing their jobs quickly enough to solve the problems.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#243

Post by rconti »

WalterBright wrote: post #228
rconti wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I lived over half my life up there. West coast geography is just what I consider "normal". I don't think I could live in other regions of the country as happily. I didn't find housing costs to be that far out of whack with the increased salary when I moved to the Bay Area, though. And I found the soul crushingly bad traffic at the time to be worse in Seattle than in the Bay. My #1 reason was the weather, though…

I like the rain in Seattle. It makes things peaceful, and the wet air smells good. (I grew up in Arizona, where 367 days of clear blue sky gets a bit boring .)

After about 10 years here in CA, I started liking the rain too. Now I love it when it rains. I just hated the way unpredictable weather (==rain) meant you could never plan an outdoor activity in the PNW without the decent possibility of it getting rained on. It limited my enjoyment of the "great outdoors". But in a larger sense, my (mood-related) gripe was with the grey, not the rain itself.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#244

Post by naveen99 »

Atleast california state or San Francisco city don't yet claim a cut of your intellectual property. After all you use their land and infrastructure. Also, the state and city governments don't yet have their own firehouse of data collection into your communication.

I wonder if some enterprising landlord will put in a clause into the lease to own your intellectual property and communications while in your residence. Would people sign the lease for a 20% rent discount ?

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#245

Post by JoeAltmaier »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #176
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's social security, retirement funds, and savings. Why does 'government job' mean anything special?

Government jobs are often very low pay. Many government workers who are promised a pension are locked out of social security. If you are being paid so low that you cannot save for regular expenses, let alone retirement, then what are you going to do when you turn 65? Turn over and die immediately? Also, the reason you assure pension to government employees is because they tend to be stable and dependable workers over…

Sounds like a thousand other jobs. Any company would benefit from stable and dependable workers. Nobody else gets this special treatment.

I'm unconvinced. I believe they get special treatment only because they are a large lobby group.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#246

Post by justinlardinois »

mmanfrin wrote: post #177

I have literally never heard anyone cite California taxes as having any contribution on them leaving. The only people I've heard mention 'high California taxes' are people who are explicitly trying to solicit Californians to move to wherever they are ('come to Texas! We have way lower taxes than you!').

Agreed. It seems odd to harp on that, especially for a Bay Area newspaper. Also, it's not at all specific on what kind of taxes it's talking about and it makes it sound like taxes are higher in the Bay Area than the rest of California.

Local income tax is more or less nonexistent in California (and the US in general, really). Property taxes are some of the lowest in the country. We do have a high state income tax compared to other states, but it's still negligible compared to federal income taxes.

I guess your federal income taxes will be higher in California because you'll make more money here than in most other states.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#247

Post by justinlardinois »

cylinder wrote: post #185
FreakyT wrote: post #37

All control of Bay Area housing should be put into the hands of a single "housing czar" with absolute authority to rezone. Usually democratic methods are preferable, but in this case it's clear they've failed in an absolute sense, and a new approach is needed.

Same with transportation. The reason transport is such a mess is because of all the different municipalities involved. To continue to think of the Bay as a group of totally independent cities is ridiculous.

I get what you're saying, but what's the alternative? Go back to the first half of the 1900s where San Jose was annexing everything?

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#248

Post by netcan »

api wrote: post #92
netcan wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just SF. It's big cities around the world. They are drawing in more people than ever. Most have housing/transport issues that present as high cost of living. People still keep pouring in and successful cities stand out in terms of household income. Even as the internet makes geography less relevant, the competition for living in cities keeps growing.

I've seen the "alpha cities" phenomenon explode since 2000. Where you live has become a proxy for your competence, importance, etc. I'm not convinced it's not the Internet. Google "FOMO" for a possible mechanism. The Internet makes it easy for large cities, by sheer social mass, to send out a louder cultural signal and convince everyone else they are missing something by not being there. Talk to a young midwesterner…

I think you're right about FOMO and the internet. Stuff like Meetup, Tinder or flash mob facebook groups only really work in cities, the bigger the better. OTOH, you are not totally isolated from stuff with the internet playing such a big part of culture. It's hard to argue with the economics, I guess. Cities have been drawing people in for a while now they haven't lost their pull.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#249

Post by HillaryBriss »

chrisseaton wrote: post #171
TDL wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other accounts/instruments that can replace public pensions. The reality is that politicians over promise on pensions and create unsustainable obligations for future generations.

They could just use defined contribution then there's no future liability.

Yes. But try getting that enacted into law in California.

Public sector unions are strongly against that sort of arrangement. They prefer that the taxpayer guarantee them a defined level of pension benefit (no matter what the investment markets do).

In other words, it seems that public sector unions want the taxpayer to insulate them from the real world shocks which the other 80% of people have to endure. It's a very valuable benefit and it's understandable that they fight for it. But it is super expensive for the cities and states.

In LA there was an attempt about 5 years ago to gather signatures just to put a measure on the ballot to transition city workers from defined benefit to a 401K style defined contribution pension plan.

But certain public sector unions made it known that they planned to send their people out to sign those petitions with unverifiable, fake names and addresses. This would increase the likelihood of a failed signature verification process, meaning that the petition would probably not succeed at getting the measure on the ballot. So they dropped the whole effort.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#250

Post by justinlardinois »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #69
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #25

I'm fine here. I have a job in tech and I'll be able to put down roots and buy a home, Etc. However by virtue of living here I basically force all of my children to do the same or move away. it's simply too hard to live here unless you're working in tech.

To enjoy a halfway decent life in the Bay Area (to not require roommates to meet expenses, own a car, and not have to commute from the Central Valley everyday) I'd say you have to make 6 figures. Or be married to/BFF with someone who does. Moving from the Bay Area to Portland, my salary increased by 8%, but I can afford my own apartment and s brand new car, middle class hallmarks that were way out of my league in Sun…

Six figures is a huge exaggeration. You can reasonably find a one bedroom apartment for yourself in west San Jose for $2000/month, likely less if you shop around or are willing to live in a studio, and live off $1000-1500/month for everything else. Even if you're making payments of a few hundred a month on, you don't need to be anywhere close to six figures to have that lifestyle.

Granted, the level of income you'd need for this is still hard to achieve without a tech job. But you don't need six figures.

Unless by the Bay Area you meant living in San Francisco. Then all bets are off.

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