California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents • Hacker News Board

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#191

Post by boxy310 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:10 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #167

Anyone else alarmed that a doctor was leaving because the rent was too high? A doctor is one of the jobs that is expected to pay top dollar in American society. If a doctor can't make it in the Bay Area, who's going to cut your hair, serve your beer, or mow your lawn? If wages don't rise in line with skyrocketing living costs, then the only alternative is a permenantly impoverished underclass. People of the Bay Area:…

Recently took a trip out to the Bay Area, and when I did the back-of-the-napkin calculations, I figured it would actually be cheaper to fly from the Midwest and stay in a hotel every other weekend, than it would be to live there. Really neat place to visit, but I can't understand how anyone in their right mind would live there.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#192

Post by rconti » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:10 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #15

TwiztidK wrote: post #9

I just visited some friends in southern California and the possibility of me moving out there came up in conversation. So, I used a cost of living calculator to figure how much more I would need to make to be at the same level... 60% more. Definitely not going to happen.

I visited a few times in the past. Spent a large part of the day stuck in LA traffic. It wasn't even morning or evening community, it seems it is an all day kinda thing. There was a metro / subway there but it never seemed to go where we wanted to go.

Traffic in LA is an all day (and all night) thing. But, like anywhere else, you can choose to live close to work -- or not.

The light rail is actually a huge success story in LA right now.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#193

Post by cylinder » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:10 PM UTC

sphinx65 wrote: post #46

This is happening almost everywhere, but at a less frightening pace than CA. And we are told continually by the chattering class and politicians that skyrocketing real estate prices - asset inflation - is a good thing. Since forever a stable residential real estate market was the goal and people understood its value. Now we're all gamblers, meaning losers. When the hedge funds and REIT's stop speculating in residenti…

Hedge funds and REITs are not involved in single family residential in the Bay Area, and even as a whole they are small players. Most REIT assets by far are in commercial / multifamily property.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#194

Post by brooklyndavs » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:11 PM UTC

yequalsx wrote: post #62

shiftpgdn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do government pensions even exist anymore? There is absolutely no reason for them and they need to go. The government can pay a reasonable salary if they wanted skilled workers.

For me the question is why don't all workers have pensions? As I understand it most 401(k) plans have high expense ratios, rely on people actively participating and generally leave workers with an underfunded retirement. I prefer a system much like the French. Leaving it up to an individual to plan 40 years into the future does not seem like a sensible social policy.

Agree, especially with all of the choices that employees have and the risks & fees associated with those choices. Mostly, it seems to be another way to funnel middle class money into the financial industry. The history of the 401k is interesting and was never intended to replace a work's pension.

"It was intended to allow taxpayers a break on taxes on deferred income. In 1980, a benefits consultant named Ted Benna took note of the previously obscure provision and figured out that it could be used to create a simple, tax-advantaged way to save for retirement. The client for whom he was working at the time chose not to create a 401(k) plan."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/401(k)

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#195

Post by rconti » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:12 PM UTC

iceManChild wrote: post #104

I live in the Bay Area. I have been able to make it work for me and love it here, though I do understand some of the reasons why others may not. Cost probably tops that list. But, the complaints about traffic should not be focused on California. In my experience most of the cities I have to travel to (Seattle, Phoenix, Atlanta) have much worse traffic issues. My colleagues in those cities spend 5-10 extra hours drivi…

I moved from Seattle to the Bay Area about 15 years ago, and at the time, Seattle traffic was far worse. Of course, the metro Bay Area is physically larger, so it's possible to conjure up a worse commute involving more miles, but for the same number of miles, at the time, Seattle was worse.

Traffic in the Bay Area has gotten quite bad of late, but I know Seattle has done the same.

I live 7mi from work so it hardly phases me. Particularly when I bike in.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#196

Post by blendo » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:12 PM UTC

musha68k wrote: post #127

mr_tristan wrote: post #65

Heh, funny to read this on the day my moving van arrives to get my things outta here! It's a little sad, but we simply got fed up with the standard of living here. And, the Bay Area just feels mismanaged. Getting around is a royal pain. After living in Vienna, I was amazed at people who thought Bart was great. Really? I found it dirty, slow, and crazy expensive. Of course everything is just crazy expensive. A beer ga…

I don't know when the wave actually broke but I was very disillusioned by the vibes of the bay area when I stayed for GDC in 2009. It seemed like they drove out most of the hippies a long time ago, more often than not people were just acting , very superficially and with a creepy adherence to a lost cultural heritage that felt more like selling out ( get your shrink-wrapped Jerry Garcia T-shirt and GTFO ). To make th…

There was _way_ too much couture tie-dye at the Haight-Ashbury street fair a few weeks ago.

But then I stopped by the California Historical Radio Society booth (Radio Day is July 23 in Alameda!), and spoke with them abuot their "KSAN Live Jive CD Project", and all the good memories came flooding back.

If you're curious about the Bay Area, read David Talbot's wonderful history, "Season of the Witch".

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#197

Post by bagels » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:12 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #167

Anyone else alarmed that a doctor was leaving because the rent was too high? A doctor is one of the jobs that is expected to pay top dollar in American society. If a doctor can't make it in the Bay Area, who's going to cut your hair, serve your beer, or mow your lawn? If wages don't rise in line with skyrocketing living costs, then the only alternative is a permenantly impoverished underclass. People of the Bay Area:…

What else can people do? The choices I see (with no mention of efficacy) are: leave, demand better pay, lobby for cohesive regional zoning and transportation planning that meets growth.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#198

Post by hx87 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:13 PM UTC

jff wrote: post #95

Then they move to another state, and drive up the housing markets, and vote for all the same stuff that made California untenable, and wonder why the natives are hostile.

I doubt the newcomers will be voting for NIMBYist ordnances though; that tends to be something existing owners do.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#199

Post by toast0 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:14 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #143

eweise wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean what would all the government workers do when they get too old to work? I don't know but I don't get a pension so why should I pay for theirs?

I don't understand (and I'm being down voted so I must be saying something stupid) but why do you care if government workers get a salary and a pension bought for them, or a bit more salary and buy their own pension? And don't most most jobs still include a pension as a standard benefit? I'd say you were in the minority if you're a full time tech worker and have no pension at all.

The problem with government pensions is that the work of today is paid for with money today and a promise of money in the future for an undeterminable number of years. Many governments have not saved prudently for their future obligations and the result is current taxes going to support past workers, which taxpayers don't appreciate when it gets extreme.

In the private sector, pensions have been going away -- I've worked for about nine employers in the last 20 years or so, only one had a pension plan, a public school district. (I wasn't eligible to participate because I held a part time position)

Many (most?) private sector employers offer participation in defined contribution retirement plans such as 401(k), some with employer contributions -- those are much simpler to manage, today's work gets paid for today. There are some government plans of this type, and taxpayers don't get upset about them, generally.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#200

Post by rconti » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

nfriedly wrote: post #47

My wife and I spent a year in the Bay Area (San Mateo), and there was a lot to love. Great weather, awesome farmers markets, plenty of work, etc. But holly cow was it expensive! My rent was around $2000/month. I had a co-worker living in SF proper who's apartment was $4500/month. And that was 4-5 years ago, it's probably gone up by now. After a year, we moved back to Ohio - I now have a good-sized house on nearly an…

I would expect if you had chosen to grind it out in the Bay Area, you could have retired in Ohio even sooner.

But if you wanted to retire where you're working, yeah, it ain't gonna happen at 45 in the Bay Area.

Did you do the comparison at the time? Just curious. Part of what makes it work out here for me is that the cost of living means savings scale that much faster. But I have no idea where I'm going to retire.