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California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

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Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#151

Post by rconti »

arethuza wrote: post #131
shawndumas wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Long Island, NY and Boca Raton, FL I gotta say... I don't think I could leave the Bay Area. The weather, the geological features, the schools, the meetups, the job opportunities... all factors. But the biggest is that the people are truly interested in intellectual matters in a way that was not extant in the other places I've lived. My son is a programmer and nobody had a clue what he was talking abou…

What geological features of the Bay Area do you regard as a plus point? NB Not being snarky - I live in Edinburgh which is overflowing with geological features [hence arguably being the birthplace of geology as a science] and I love that factor but the main geological feature of the Bay Area would appear to be a major disadvantage rather than a feature?

I guess parent meant geographical. Ocean, bay, mountains, forests, near-deserts, all in close proximity.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#152

Post by cylinder »

tsunamifury wrote: post #78

We've lost most of our friends now, and the roots we were putting down over the last 7 years are eroding a bit. For the record our household income fluctuates between 300 and 400k and we live in a microhouse (500sqft) in Berkeley. Expanding is a difficult proposition. Its an interesting set of factors that lets me buy a Ferrari far easier than a house. First lifestyle money, then tech money, now foreign investment. A…

What am I missing -- rent for large houses in nice East Bay suburbs seems to be around $3500-$4000 a month which is easily less than a third of your take-home income. I'm not sure about Berkeley proper.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#153

Post by xigency »

superswordfish wrote: post #89
ericabiz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the biggest is that the people are truly interested in intellectual matters in a way that was not extant in the other places I've lived. That seems like it used to be true more than it is now. I live in Austin, and you can't go to a downtown coffee shop without hearing a spirited discussion about programming languages, frameworks or even conversion rates (I heard that last one standing in line at a taco place t…

The conversations are on a different level though. In a secondary tech market you'll hear CoffeeScript vs. JavaScript, Laravel vs Rails or whatever. In the Bay Area, and also in Cambridge, the discussion might be about compiler architecture or reverse engineering.

I would place those three or four conversations on the same level, to be frank. Also, living somewhere that isn't a tech capital, I'm actually annoyed to hear programming language discussion on the bus in the city, but maybe that's because I'm trying to get home from my job, not stay at my desk.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#154

Post by huherto »

sphinx65 wrote: post #49
shiftpgdn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do government pensions even exist anymore? There is absolutely no reason for them and they need to go. The government can pay a reasonable salary if they wanted skilled workers.

Because they were promises made a long, long time ago, when interest rates were high enough to support the idea of pensions and retirement?

Excuse my ignorance. How are interest rates and pensions connected?

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#155

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

overcast wrote: post #42
sideband wrote: post #33

There's some sort of Stockholm syndrome prevalent among too many Bay Area residents that compels them to accept the lower quality of life. I lived there for several years until recently, and it was a surreal experience to hear others discuss the sacrifices they were making just to have a roof over their family's head, to provide a half-decent education for their children. And these were well-payed folks at the brand-…

It's interesting to hear these experiences from people that live there. Because there is certainly a romanticized version of it we see on the East Coast. Living in upstate New York, we have tons of wilderness areas, and relatively cheap living conditions. The grind out in California, just to say you live there, sounds scary.

Love that you're from upstate NY and your name is "overcast."

I'm making do in Ithaca just fine. More restaurants per person than New York City, a rush hour that only lasts 10 minutes on 5 roads, and a bunch of really nice people for a place this cold and gray make Ithaca the most good enough place in the world for me.

As far as big cities go, you take the great with the terrible.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#156

Post by crucifiction »

dawhizkid wrote: post #26

Seattle is tempting as a SF resident but I think Seattle tech scene is much more risk-adverse (i.e. AMZN, MSFT employees) and not as entrepreneurially minded as in SF.

You are right. Seattle is the bay area for people who have kids they want in good schools and to have a decent upper middle class lifestyle with cars/large house/lawn. With that comes risk adverse big-tech-co jobs that pay high but steady.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#157

Post by pm90 »

superswordfish wrote: post #84
pm90 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you're trying to do, but its not going to work ;). Texas is about as interesting as you can get, especially if you live in Austin. The housing costs are not ridiculous (yet), you can live in decent house near downtown, COL is low, no state taxes etc. Quite a wonderful state, especially if you're young and in tech. BTW, there is also a vibrant live music scene. And also a lot of theater and art. Did I ment…

Just pray you don't end up on the wrong side of the law (to be fair, the same could be said of CA).

How do you mean?

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#158

Post by rconti »

dmode wrote: post #145

So, "exodus" is used to define a mere outflow of 60K residents ? That is less than 0.05%. Also, this article makes no sense. If California was losing people for the last 22 years, how come it's population went from 29 million in 1990 to 40 million in 2016 ? I hate how none of these "exodus" articles are data centric and explain these two discrepancies. Is the population growth then due to birth rate ? or due to immig…

Yeah, they used outflow numbers for the entire state to "prove" that there's an exodus from the Bay Area. Here's your hint:

"California has seen negative outward migration to other states for 22 of the last 25 years."

Obviously the Bay Area does not have negative outward migration, or the traffic and housing issues would be solved.

Another interesting quote cites a man inexplicably commuting from SF to the East Bay which is not something you'd do if you were trying to optimize your housing costs.

A third cites a woman and her sister moving from The Villages in SJ to Dayton, Ohio. Not mentioned is the fact that The Villages is a retirement community on a golf course (you have to be over 55 to live there).

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#159

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

eweise wrote: post #90
chrisseaton wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing away with pensions? Huh? How would that work? What would everyone do when they got too old to work? Do you think people should just build up a savings account? Without an annuity what would they do if they live longer than they planned and run out of savings?

You mean what would all the government workers do when they get too old to work? I don't know but I don't get a pension so why should I pay for theirs?

Government jobs are dull, underpaid, largely unrewarding, and people in them have to take shit from Ayn Rand acolytes like you every day for problems that are way above their pay grade.

Assuring that the people who serve society don't spend their final years in poverty is the least we can do.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#160

Post by JoeAltmaier »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #159
eweise wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean what would all the government workers do when they get too old to work? I don't know but I don't get a pension so why should I pay for theirs?

Government jobs are dull, underpaid, largely unrewarding, and people in them have to take shit from Ayn Rand acolytes like you every day for problems that are way above their pay grade. Assuring that the people who serve society don't spend their final years in poverty is the least we can do.

There's social security, retirement funds, and savings. Why does 'government job' mean anything special?
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