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Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

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Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#241

Post by dsfyu404ed »

protomyth wrote: post #39
linkregister wrote: post #24

From the article: State Sen. Kyle Loveless, R-Oklahoma City, said that removes due process and the belief that a suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty. He said we've already seen cases in Oklahoma where police are abusing the system. "We've seen single mom's stuff be taken, a cancer survivor his drugs taken, we saw a Christian band being taken. We've seen innocent people's stuff being taken. We've seen whe…

Looks, like it might be a bit problematic or something deeper given his wife's arrest http://kfor.com/2015/10/07/oklahoma-senators-wife-arrested-c... Not from OK, so I get the feeling this affects things, but not sure how.

Or a well off white guy had to deal with the police in a negative context for the first time in his life and that changed his opinion of them and the power they do or don't deserve

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#242

Post by odrekf »

Declanomous wrote: post #234
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good question and I like a non-IANAL response. As far as I can tell police officers assume any resistance to request as proof of guilt. This kind of thinking has happened historically in the past and there's no reason to believe it's not happening now.

I believe searching your car and searching your person constitute two entirely different searches. If your wallet is on the seat next to you, the police could theoretically use that as grounds for a search. If your wallet is in your pocket, and they take your wallet off you as part of a search of your vehicle, you'd probably have a better chance of successfully claiming unreasonable search and seizure. I'm not a lawy…

In many places you won't have a chance of doing anything. Just do a quick search in youtube and watch all the people being robbed, beaten, raped, and killed by the police. That's the power they have now.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#243

Post by roywiggins »

brador wrote: post #66
viggity wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The despicable logic they use is that they're not charging the person with a crime (because people have due process rights), they're charging an inanimate object, the money, the car, etc. Property doesn't have due process rights, apparently. Seriously. If you look at the court cases for asset forfeitures, it is titled "The State of Oklahoma vs $1,534.32 in cash" or "Iowa vs 2014 Mercedes".

How can an inanimate object be charged with a crime? It's inanimate, so by definition cannot make a decision... Also, if they're confiscating assets, why not confiscate the car? Why just the cash/cards? How do we get this absurd law overturned? What's the minimum required? Supreme court decision?

They are civil cases- the objects aren't being charged with crimes.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#244

Post by tn13 »

linkregister wrote: post #24

From the article: State Sen. Kyle Loveless, R-Oklahoma City, said that removes due process and the belief that a suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty. He said we've already seen cases in Oklahoma where police are abusing the system. "We've seen single mom's stuff be taken, a cancer survivor his drugs taken, we saw a Christian band being taken. We've seen innocent people's stuff being taken. We've seen whe…

> If State Sen. Loveless's statement is accurate

As someone who is closely following the topic I would say he is pretty accurate.

Most of these laws are passed claiming it is meant to target hardened criminals. Good people like us think it is okay to take away any rights of people who we consider as bad. Given the choice cops will not knock down the door of Drug dealer known to have automatic rifles at his home but some poor old cancer patient who is unlikely to resist or cry.

These problems are not a creation of police. These are created by good people like us who do not empathize with criminals, minorities and other groups which by default consider "less human".

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#246

Post by SixSigma »

tremon wrote: post #134
jandrese wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they're going to use that bullshit legal reasoning that because the money committed the crime, the money itself can be held responsible and seized, and money doesn't have 4th amendment protections because it's not a person.

Yet if it's not a person, it can't be convicted of a crime either. Has a dog ever been charged for biting, instead of its owner?

Lots of times, plenty also found guilty, including a swarm of crickets who were excommunicated.

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/fantastically-wrong-europes-ins...

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#247

Post by fapjacks »

This is the crux here. The "rule of law" is equivalent to "rule of men in black with automatic weapons". If you call the police, you are just outsourcing your violence to the men in black uniforms with automatic weapons. Because at the end of the day, they will use force. The "rule of law" is not "let's have a reasonable conversation about the issues".

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#248

Post by brerlapn »

molecule wrote: post #58
linkregister wrote: post #24

From the article: State Sen. Kyle Loveless, R-Oklahoma City, said that removes due process and the belief that a suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty. He said we've already seen cases in Oklahoma where police are abusing the system. "We've seen single mom's stuff be taken, a cancer survivor his drugs taken, we saw a Christian band being taken. We've seen innocent people's stuff being taken. We've seen whe…

He's referring to plain-old civil asset forfeiture.

Right, the legislator is referring to civil asset forfeiture, which is what the devices in the OP's article does too--just now they will steal money from your bank account if you happen to have your debit card with you instead of just being able to steal the cash you have in the car.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#249

Post by CWuestefeld »

facetube wrote: post #220
50CNT wrote: post #32

That is physically revolting. First you have civil-asset forfeiture that let's police seize money from you when you are carrying large amounts of cash (with a generous false positive rate potentially disastrous to victims). Now to get around that, you could try handling everything by card or bank transaction (unless you're one of the unfortunate few without access to a bank account due to low credit rating or other l…

A whole lot is wrong. I was born here and love the country, but increasingly fear for my safety and well-being: our employer pays nearly $20,000 per year for NHS-equivalent health insurance (two adults, no children), basic prescriptions cause multi-month fights due to claim denials on drugs my doctor instructed me to take, patent trolling is endemic and a real threat to small bootstrapped companies, a pathological li…

I hate to delve into the politics, but...

a pathological liar is one step away from the White House and lending legitimacy to anti-first-amendment ... groups

These complaints actually describe both major-party candidates pretty well.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#250

Post by waterphone »

snuxoll wrote: post #183
tremon wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, when I'm pulled over, I definitely want my phone to be recording audio.

Agreed. Opening the settings and disabling the fingerprint scanner would be easier and allow you to still use the device to record audio.

And then you get shot because the cop saw you "reaching for a gun" instead of putting your hands in view on the wheel as soon as you're stopped.
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