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Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#581

Post by tunap »

bane wrote: post #456
soyiuz wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many cities place artificial constraints on rent increases, for example which prevents full amortization.

Doesn't matter. Landlords who are in the business of renting aren't a charity. Somebody will be paying for those expenses and it's the goal of the landlord to make it not them. Most of these kinds of arguments seen to stem from some kind of fantasy that renting is a smart choice because look at how we're pulling one over on landlords with all that free stuff they have to give me. But no rental market can survive when…

Strawman much? I never said nor intimated I was pulling anything over anyone. Property owners assume the burden of maintenance & costs of ownership. Those costs are reflected in the amount of money I give them for the privilege, not the "right", of residing on their property. When I leave, I have NOTHING to show for it.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#582

Post by [deleted] »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #561
cplease wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the snowbelt and well aware of this. Mileage (at a given city/highway mix) is still the biggest factor presuming the car is getting some minimum duty cycle. I said "mostly," not that the number of winters is nontrivial. If you only drive 5,000 miles a year, sure, but that's not typical.

Beyond using 10k/yr as a rule of thumb for average duty cycle mileage is a horrible indicator of vehicle wear. Engines are worn by cold start cycles, transmissions are worn by shifting, brakes get worn by stopping and suspension components get worn by potholes, etc. Newish used cars with ~200k on them are usually good buys because often times it's someone who used it for work (salesperson, etc.) and just ground out t…

[deleted]

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#583

Post by bane »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #558
bane wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you run the numbers and assume a market rate of return on most investments, it's very hard to turn the relatively small amount of money a down payment is into a net gain after 30 years.

that statement is simply false

feel free to run the numbers and present here

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#584

Post by dllthomas »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #228
funkyy wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can buy studio in the city and huge farm house with land 1 hour drive away... Then weekends spend in your farm house and weekdays in your studio... It would be close enough to pop in in week days also. 1 hour drive aint bad.

A two hour daily commute is like 12% of your waking hours crumpled and thrown away. That sounds like hell. Two hours is a long time! Sit around for the two hours doing nothing, you'll see.

My commute is a little less than that - but I don't sit around doing nothing! It's time to work without interruptions.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#585

Post by dang »

illumen wrote: post #555
stale2002 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP absolutely wants those he disagrees with to be silenced. "The people who brake the law with their hateful comments inciting violence deserve to face the consequences of the law. " AKA, if people make arguments that he disagrees with, like "immigrants are more likely to break the law", he believes those people who make those arguments should be put in jail.

That's not what I believe, and that's not the law. Stop making stuff up.

Your comments in this thread have broken the HN guidelines by being uncivil and calling names. That's not allowed here, even when you're right—especially when you're right. So please don't do this. Besides breaking the rules and lowering the quality of discourse (yes, others lowered it first, but two wrongs don't make a right), it undermines your argument in the mind of a neutral reader. That's a bad thing to do to the truth.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#586

Post by illumen »

dang wrote: post #585
illumen wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I believe, and that's not the law. Stop making stuff up.

Your comments in this thread have broken the HN guidelines by being uncivil and calling names. That's not allowed here, even when you're right—especially when you're right. So please don't do this. Besides breaking the rules and lowering the quality of discourse (yes, others lowered it first, but two wrongs don't make a right), it undermines your argument in the mind of a neutral reader. That's a bad thing to do to t…

If you want to prevent me from defending myself against accusations, please delete my account. If you want to defend people calling immigrants rapists that's your call.

Thanks.

Edit: on second thoughts, please delete my account. I don't want to be involved with a website who defends such people.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#587

Post by nairboon »

gonvaled wrote: post #549
nairboon wrote: post #314

One of the reasons why it was rejected, is because the supporters were slightly too idealistic. The elephant in the room is obviously, who would be eligible for the BI. Most of the supporters and some of the initiators of the initiative, that I've spoken with, were strongly for a idealistic implementation, meaning everybody physically located in Switzerland would be eligible. While the number one argument against a B…

I hope that if your BI is only for citizens and since this is presumably financed by taxes, you are going to grant a big tax exemption to non Swiss nationals, since they (according to your plan) will have no chance of benefiting from BI. What other ramifications this can have is difficult to foresee. The nice things about simple plans is that they are simple: once you start complicating matters, it gets really messy.

A citizens-only BI is just an example to maximize the difference to the current rejected proposal and setup a spectrum of possible implementations. There'd be probably some reasonable solution in the middle, where after working and paying taxes for n years makes you eligible for an BI.

Actually, I'd be in favor of a pragmatic vesting form, where the BI-payout is not binary, but you'd become eligible for a bigger share gradually over time, not just for non Swiss nationals, but especially for Swiss nationals. So that we youngsters won't just get a big payday, but it could be tied to a vesting scheme connected with your total taxes ever payed. Meaning, after taking on some small jobs and earning money the hard way first, even young (Swiss) people would have to 'earn' their BI.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#588

Post by coryfklein »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #401
s3nnyy wrote: post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

The parent posts this pretty regularly, and I followed up with him. Turns out if you are a US citizen it's not going to happen. Not sure why he keeps posting here as a majority of people are in the US, with no warning given. Was mildly annoyed at having my time wasted.

> if you are a US citizen it's not going to happen.

May I ask why?

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#589

Post by dang »

illumen wrote: post #586
dang wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments in this thread have broken the HN guidelines by being uncivil and calling names. That's not allowed here, even when you're right—especially when you're right. So please don't do this. Besides breaking the rules and lowering the quality of discourse (yes, others lowered it first, but two wrongs don't make a right), it undermines your argument in the mind of a neutral reader. That's a bad thing to do to t…

If you want to prevent me from defending myself against accusations, please delete my account. If you want to defend people calling immigrants rapists that's your call. Thanks. Edit: on second thoughts, please delete my account. I don't want to be involved with a website who defends such people.

I'm hardly "defend[ing] such people"; I chided that account more harshly than yours. The issue is simply the rules of the site.

When we ask people to follow the rules, people sometimes think that's for political reasons (i.e. we must be supporting their enemies), but isn't—it's simply that no one is allowed to call names, be uncivil, and so on, regardless of how wrong someone else is. Obviously if we're going to have such rules, we need to apply them evenly.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#590

Post by illumen »

dang wrote: post #589
illumen wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to prevent me from defending myself against accusations, please delete my account. If you want to defend people calling immigrants rapists that's your call. Thanks. Edit: on second thoughts, please delete my account. I don't want to be involved with a website who defends such people.

I'm hardly "defend[ing] such people"; I chided that account more harshly than yours. The issue is simply the rules of the site. When we ask people to follow the rules, people sometimes think that's for political reasons (i.e. we must be supporting their enemies), but isn't—it's simply that no one is allowed to call names, be uncivil, and so on, regardless of how wrong someone else is. Obviously if we're going to have…

But you didn't reply to stale2002 or ZoeZoeBee did you?

Please delete my account?

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