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Alan Kay's reading list

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Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#161

Post by embarcadero »

alankay1 wrote: post #89
embarcadero wrote: post #86

Do you read on paper, tablet, phone, or all of the above? What do you think about the respective merits of these?

I did a lot of work at PARC on the design of readable fonts, and a few years later on reading from a display (CRT) using a super-good eye tracker we had. This was prompted by "bad feelings" when trying to read from displays. The displays are better today, but I still have "bad feelings" (somewhat different) from reading from various kinds of displays, even including eInk ones. It's partly "movement" and partly memory…

Thanks. I tried to go all digital a few years ago -- getting rid of nearly all my 1000+ paper books -- only to conclude I'm generally better off reading paper and nearly always better off reading important things on paper. This because paper has a higher barrier to entry (I think of it as "slow information"), because the cookie-cutter sizing of tablets and ereaders screws up sizing (of code in particular) and, frankly, because I get tired of looking at screens and struggle to resist context switching. That said, I like to have an electronic copy of everything for easy referencing and corpus work.

The subject of paper vs digital is of particular interest to me because I volunteer with www.savenypl.org, a group created to thwart the NYPL's efforts to gut the stacks at the 42nd Street Library and sell of two branch libraries (we succeeded, mostly). I am not as skeptical of keeping books off site as some of our members, but I think many libraries are misguided in their rush to remove paper books, for reasons of both reading efficacy and surveillance. I know many technologists share these concerns. Richard Stallman was kind enough to help a few years ago (https://stallman.org/save-the-nypl.html). Now it would be good to have additional technical people weigh in on the issue of digitization / paper book removal.

May I add you to the list of such people and / or keep you posted?

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#162

Post by PeterisP »

vox_mollis wrote: post #138
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid, I worked my way through our local library in an orderly fashion. I only had to be able to sign my name to get a card. When mom would drop us off for a few hours, we'd pick out our six books (the limit), she'd come get us, and before we got home, she'd chide us on already reading too many of them. We wouldn't make them last until the next visit. It seemed an agonizing wait until 14, the required age…

How does one read that quickly with any degree of comprehension, particularly with regard to technical books? I am a fairly intelligent person, with a large vocabulary, but forcing my "mind's voice" to read faster than a normal conversational pace dramatically reduces both enjoyment and retention of material. Doubly so for anything of technical content.

I believe the enabler to fast reading is to skip verbalization totally - i.e., not a "minds voice" that is speaking quickly, but going from seeing a sentence to getting the concept of that sentence without vocalizing, without ever having had a representation of how that sentence sounds, bypassing the hearing/speech centers of your brain, reading on an abstract purely visual level.

I feel a mental voice when reading e.g. poetry or when writing a draft for a presentation/speech, but all other content is purely visual. I tend to recall the visual location where a fact was written, e.g. that was on the right side of some page around the bottom part, but not how it sounded.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#163

Post by alankay1 »

embarcadero wrote: post #161
alankay1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a lot of work at PARC on the design of readable fonts, and a few years later on reading from a display (CRT) using a super-good eye tracker we had. This was prompted by "bad feelings" when trying to read from displays. The displays are better today, but I still have "bad feelings" (somewhat different) from reading from various kinds of displays, even including eInk ones. It's partly "movement" and partly memory…

Thanks. I tried to go all digital a few years ago -- getting rid of nearly all my 1000+ paper books -- only to conclude I'm generally better off reading paper and nearly always better off reading important things on paper. This because paper has a higher barrier to entry (I think of it as "slow information"), because the cookie-cutter sizing of tablets and ereaders screws up sizing (of code in particular) and, frankl…

There's no question that electronic media as readable as paper can be done -- and, in a way, it is not too surprising that it hasn't (I don't think most technologists care). I am quite curious why the super-high-res screens don't work better for this (worth looking at).

The first commercial laser printers were 300dpi and the result was quite readable (the very first one that was invented -- by Gary Starkweather at Parc -- was 500pdi). I asked John Warnock why 300dpi worked better than I thought it would, and he said that it was the "real black" and excellent accuracy.

We have both at least that on "retina" type displays, so I'm guessing that there is still some refresh flicker that is causing some of the problems (if so, then that would revise long ago experiments that indicated most people would not be bothered by anything above 120p).

(But I think I feel that my eyes are doing extra saccades on laptop displays, and that the contrast ratios and res are not good enough with eInk.)

The experiments I did at Parc, cross connected with Tom Cornsweet's work at SRI, showed curves that swung both with contrast ratio, and "distance from real black".

Another thing that will help (for "Aldus" type personal books) will be the next round of flexible displays that will feel a little more conformal.

(Also, how could the Ipad and Eink tablet folks failed to have put the batteries on one side of a symmetric device so it could be held with the center of mass in the offhand?) This is really shockingly awful elementary human factors design. The next round of these will hopefully have a lower density/mass in any case.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#164

Post by fogus »

It seems I've missed the boat on this discussion, but I wanted to say that I appreciate the context in which the list was created and the choices in that light. In other words, this list is a thoughtful attempt to educate people of a certain bent via "constrained breath" -- not the greatest term, but the best one that comes to mind. I've been trying to put together a list in the same spirit for some time aimed at programmers, systems thinkers, etc. with varying degrees of success. The current list can be described as "books for programming that are not about programming" containing such gems as How Buildings Learn, Pattern Recognition, Living System, Wabi-Sabi: for Artists, Designers, Poets and Philosophers, and others.

I suspect Dr. kay would have a lot to say about (and perhaps add to) such a list.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#165

Post by aidenn0 »

alankay1 wrote: post #163
embarcadero wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I tried to go all digital a few years ago -- getting rid of nearly all my 1000+ paper books -- only to conclude I'm generally better off reading paper and nearly always better off reading important things on paper. This because paper has a higher barrier to entry (I think of it as "slow information"), because the cookie-cutter sizing of tablets and ereaders screws up sizing (of code in particular) and, frankl…

There's no question that electronic media as readable as paper can be done -- and, in a way, it is not too surprising that it hasn't (I don't think most technologists care). I am quite curious why the super-high-res screens don't work better for this (worth looking at). The first commercial laser printers were 300dpi and the result was quite readable (the very first one that was invented -- by Gary Starkweather at Pa…

I think a glossy screen in a well lit room will never achieve an acceptable black. I am writing this on a macbok in a room with bay windows and I can see my reflection on the white parts of the screen.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#166

Post by alankay1 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #165
alankay1 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no question that electronic media as readable as paper can be done -- and, in a way, it is not too surprising that it hasn't (I don't think most technologists care). I am quite curious why the super-high-res screens don't work better for this (worth looking at). The first commercial laser printers were 300dpi and the result was quite readable (the very first one that was invented -- by Gary Starkweather at Pa…

I think a glossy screen in a well lit room will never achieve an acceptable black. I am writing this on a macbok in a room with bay windows and I can see my reflection on the white parts of the screen.

Screens used to have a "quarter wave plate" that would knock down a lot of the reflections -- I'm not sure why the glossy screens came back (more light out? cheaper?).

I have an older MacAir that does not have a highly reflective screen. The black is pretty good.

My feeling is that my eyes are jumping a bit with it, and for this (or some other) reason, I also have a distinct "I'm not remembering as well" underlying feeling. (This could be an illusion, or it could be harking back to long ago when I was trying to learn how to remember more of what I was reading ...)

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#167

Post by aidenn0 »

alankay1 wrote: post #166
aidenn0 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a glossy screen in a well lit room will never achieve an acceptable black. I am writing this on a macbok in a room with bay windows and I can see my reflection on the white parts of the screen.

Screens used to have a "quarter wave plate" that would knock down a lot of the reflections -- I'm not sure why the glossy screens came back (more light out? cheaper?). I have an older MacAir that does not have a highly reflective screen. The black is pretty good. My feeling is that my eyes are jumping a bit with it, and for this (or some other) reason, I also have a distinct "I'm not remembering as well" underlying f…

Glossy displays definitely appear to have more vibrant color in the average big-box store with very diffuse lighting. They are also somewhat better if you can sit so that all of the specular reflections from bright lights will be directed away from you.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#168

Post by GeertVL »

alankay wrote: post #66
justsaysmthng wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alan, have you actually read all those books cover-to-cover ? In general how do you read ? Do you finish a book even if you don't like the style or subject matter ? Do you read sequentially - one book at a time cover to cover - or do you read several books in parallel ? Any tips/tricks on how to choose the next book ? Do you continue going deeper into the subject matter of the last book or do you jump to a completely…

Somewhat by accident I wound up a fluent reader before going to school, and read voraciously from then on. I'm not sure how many books I've read, but probably no more than 20,000 (I have some friends -- and have knowledge of some -- who have read quite a bit more). Fluency really helps because there are fewer really worthwhile books than other kinds (this is similar to "most ideas are mediocre down to bad", in no sma…

Do you make any notes during reading or make some sort of resume/recapitulation when you finish a book?

Are you a paper notebook fan?

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#169

Post by alankay »

GeertVL wrote: post #168
alankay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat by accident I wound up a fluent reader before going to school, and read voraciously from then on. I'm not sure how many books I've read, but probably no more than 20,000 (I have some friends -- and have knowledge of some -- who have read quite a bit more). Fluency really helps because there are fewer really worthwhile books than other kinds (this is similar to "most ideas are mediocre down to bad", in no sma…

Do you make any notes during reading or make some sort of resume/recapitulation when you finish a book? Are you a paper notebook fan?

I don't make notes while I'm reading or do a recap. However, I do use notebooks for "ideas" when I'm trying to get something done, or those that just show up. This is to not get trapped by the ideas -- basically to move them to a back burner, so more can happen. I sometimes look at the notes, but usually not. The writing down of the ideas seems to put them in a more useful place in the hairball.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#170

Post by awt »

fsloth wrote: post #47
awt wrote: post #6

I'm disappointed not to see Aristotle. On the other hand not totally surprised, either.

It contains Bertrand Russels 'History of Western Philosophy' which is far more relevant IMO - and gives a nice summary of Aristotle including the warning "he's kinda rubbish if you compare him to his reputation". By which he means, in several topics Aristotle is rather more enthusiastic, than coherent, precise or correct.

Aristotle was, as opposed to Plato, and much to the benefit of humanity, an empiricist.
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