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Alan Kay's reading list

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Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#61

Post by kqr »

alankay wrote: post #42

This wasn't actually for my students, and dates back to the early 90s. A number of people at Anderson Consulting (now Accenture) asked for my "top ten" books. This is not possible for anyone who reads extensively, so I came out with that list as a bare start. I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy: they help the understanding and appreciation of "good books" considerably.

> I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy

Thanks for mentioning that. I've been looking for a reason to read "poor books" for a long time (much to the frustration of people around me, who want me to "just read it, who cares"), and this makes sense to me.

(I'm not starstruck in the slightest, by the way...)

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#62

Post by alankay1 »

kqr wrote: post #61
alankay wrote: post #42

This wasn't actually for my students, and dates back to the early 90s. A number of people at Anderson Consulting (now Accenture) asked for my "top ten" books. This is not possible for anyone who reads extensively, so I came out with that list as a bare start. I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy: they help the understanding and appreciation of "good books" considerably.

> I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy Thanks for mentioning that. I've been looking for a reason to read "poor books" for a long time (much to the frustration of people around me, who want me to "just read it, who cares"), and this makes sense to me. (I'm not starstruck in the slightest, by the way...)

It's hard to tell if a book is "poor" until it's read. I just meant that "reading lots of books and 'taking percentages' " is a good approach. The ones that are not so good still help a bit.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#63

Post by justsaysmthng »

alankay wrote: post #42

This wasn't actually for my students, and dates back to the early 90s. A number of people at Anderson Consulting (now Accenture) asked for my "top ten" books. This is not possible for anyone who reads extensively, so I came out with that list as a bare start. I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy: they help the understanding and appreciation of "good books" considerably.

Alan, have you actually read all those books cover-to-cover ?

In general how do you read ? Do you finish a book even if you don't like the style or subject matter ?

Do you read sequentially - one book at a time cover to cover - or do you read several books in parallel ?

Any tips/tricks on how to choose the next book ?

Do you continue going deeper into the subject matter of the last book or do you jump to a completely different domain ?

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#64

Post by paulojreis »

alankay wrote: post #57
paulojreis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wanted to ask you this: what's your opinion on Gregory Bateson's work on the intersection of anthropology, psychiatry, cybernetics and communication in general? Since this discussion is focusing on books, have you read "Steps to an Ecology of Mind"? I hope it goes without saying: thank you very much for your contribution to the world, generally.

Another of many books I probably should have put on the list (but that's the problem with lists of "good books" in a world that has thousands of them). I knew Gregory slightly, and his daughter Mary Catherine more so. (And there are others from this circle that should be included: Gordon Pask, Heinz von Forester, etc.) One way to think about this in the larger sense is that "an interesting person is one who is intere…

> It's worth it to try to understand what "interesting people" have thought -- it provides context for one's own thinking.

This is eventually the main reason why I mentioned Bateson's work in particular (besides the depth and orthogonality of his ideas).

I've read Watzlawick's work on interaction and pragmatics of communication before I've read Bateson's. I found Watzlawick's ideas easier to grasp (at least, I'm under that illusion), clearly presented with e.g. axioms. Then I read Bateson's work, and got this strange feeling of dwelling around the same underlying concepts, but without a clear understanding of his main argument.

I've read "Steps to an Ecology of Mind" quite a few times (I still re-read some chapters every once in a while) and always felt that a) I'm reading new material; and b) I'm not getting it all. Yet, I always get something new, and this is an extremely interesting insight on how my own perception changes over time.

Of course, this happens with other books and authors. Still, personally, I have a clear feeling that not to the same extent as it happens with Bateson's ideas. It's my own mirror, so to speak.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#65

Post by alankay1 »

fsloth wrote: post #47
awt wrote: post #6

I'm disappointed not to see Aristotle. On the other hand not totally surprised, either.

It contains Bertrand Russels 'History of Western Philosophy' which is far more relevant IMO - and gives a nice summary of Aristotle including the warning "he's kinda rubbish if you compare him to his reputation". By which he means, in several topics Aristotle is rather more enthusiastic, than coherent, precise or correct.

Marvin Minsky: "A lot of philosophy is just bad science ..."

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#66

Post by alankay »

justsaysmthng wrote: post #63
alankay wrote: post #42

This wasn't actually for my students, and dates back to the early 90s. A number of people at Anderson Consulting (now Accenture) asked for my "top ten" books. This is not possible for anyone who reads extensively, so I came out with that list as a bare start. I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy: they help the understanding and appreciation of "good books" considerably.

Alan, have you actually read all those books cover-to-cover ? In general how do you read ? Do you finish a book even if you don't like the style or subject matter ? Do you read sequentially - one book at a time cover to cover - or do you read several books in parallel ? Any tips/tricks on how to choose the next book ? Do you continue going deeper into the subject matter of the last book or do you jump to a completely…

Somewhat by accident I wound up a fluent reader before going to school, and read voraciously from then on. I'm not sure how many books I've read, but probably no more than 20,000 (I have some friends -- and have knowledge of some -- who have read quite a bit more).

Fluency really helps because there are fewer really worthwhile books than other kinds (this is similar to "most ideas are mediocre down to bad", in no small part because good ideas are a rarer set of insights, and they have to be formed in our not wonderful commonsense environment).

In third grade I started to put a lot more effort into really remembering what I read (it finally occurred to me that I'd have to reread most of the books if I didn't).

Because of efficiency, etc., I generally finish virtually all books. I often read several books at a time. I don't spend all day reading now, though I certainly often did when I was younger.

Reading often leads to other reading. I also read reviews of books. A really fun find ca 1970 was The Whole Earth Catalog, which listed thousands of "tools" including hundreds of books with small very useful reviews. Most of these were very worthwhile (and all the books in the WEC were the first books in the PARC library).

I sympathize with the writer below who wished for a little description for each book on my reading list (annotated bibliographies are very helpful).

I follow my nose (and try to use other dim senses when possible).

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#67

Post by Bilestoad »

alankay1 wrote: post #54
alankay1 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the first two or three books by Montessori would be on this list if I'd been comprehensive enough. I don't remember whether I listed Suzuki's "Nurtured By Love" book: another classic for those trying to think about learning, children, art, culture, environment, etc.

In checking, I see that there is a Montessori book listed, as well as the book by Suzuki ...

So there is. My mistake. Secret of Childhood is a good one.

Montessori anticipated the whole 'the brain exists to control movement' awakening that is happening in developmental cognitive neuroscience, and her work caused me to question the relevance of technology in an early learning environment.

This is a great book list. I was delighted to see De Bono there, who I'd forgotten about since I first discovered him years ago. May have to reread some of that.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#68

Post by alankay1 »

paulojreis wrote: post #64
alankay wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another of many books I probably should have put on the list (but that's the problem with lists of "good books" in a world that has thousands of them). I knew Gregory slightly, and his daughter Mary Catherine more so. (And there are others from this circle that should be included: Gordon Pask, Heinz von Forester, etc.) One way to think about this in the larger sense is that "an interesting person is one who is intere…

> It's worth it to try to understand what "interesting people" have thought -- it provides context for one's own thinking. This is eventually the main reason why I mentioned Bateson's work in particular (besides the depth and orthogonality of his ideas). I've read Watzlawick's work on interaction and pragmatics of communication before I've read Bateson's. I found Watzlawick's ideas easier to grasp (at least, I'm unde…

Well, Gregory missed some important ideas in that book (partly from his background I think, and partly from his personality). You might get some perspective from looking at his last book "Mind and Nature". And, in many ways, much more powerful looks at "mind" are Minsky's "Society of Mind" and "The Emotion Machine". There is also Kahneman's "Thinking: Fast and Slow" more recently ...

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#69

Post by cJ0th »

steveeq1 wrote: post #17

I am a particular fan of the Debono books. I swear, debono is unparalled in clear writing. Here are video versions of the two debono books mentioned in Alan Kay's reading list just in case anyone's interested: Lateral Thinking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFFZ0XSfCRw Six Thinking Hats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mtc_CBTIeI

"Six Thinking Hats" was the first book that I read in this area. To this day I like to use his methodology from time to time when I have to find a solution to a big problem that confuses me so much that I don't even know where to start. Even if you don't have a problem at hand applying it to a hypothetical problem is quite a fun mind game when you have some time to kill (for example on a long bus trip).

That said I probably read the book at the right time because it works best when you have a certain naivete and faith that you stumbled upon the ultimate silver bullet for problem solving.

Had I encountered the book just yet I'd probably have been more dismissive of it. "Oh yeah, here we go .. another guy who wants to sell you some self-help fluff disguised in a business context"

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#70

Post by igravious »

alankay wrote: post #42

This wasn't actually for my students, and dates back to the early 90s. A number of people at Anderson Consulting (now Accenture) asked for my "top ten" books. This is not possible for anyone who reads extensively, so I came out with that list as a bare start. I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy: they help the understanding and appreciation of "good books" considerably.

Life is too short for poor books :)

I couldn't vouch for the other topics but I can say that the section on Philosophy made me raise an eyebrow! Well, that and the section on Politics & Economy is obviously US/capitalist -centric but you know that. No Communist Manifesto? Really? :)

In case anyone happens to read the list you gave and also reads here, the following are not considered primary philosophical works:

The Passion of the Western Mind by RICHARD TARNAS

Ascent of Man by JACOB BRONOWSKI

Science and Sanity by COUNT KORZYBSKI

Science is not Enough by VANNEVAR BUSH

What I Believe by MARK BOOTH (Ed)

Zen Mind, Beginners' Mind by SHUNRYU SUZUKI

Also. While Plato's Republic is a master-work his Symposium far exceeds the Timeaus. Symposium (not Timeaus) is included in the brilliant _The Classics of Western Philosophy_ which is a decent source and one stop shop of Western Philosophical Works: http://www.hackettpublishing.com/classics-of-western-philoso....

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