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GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

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Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#31

Post by dunkelheit »

cornstalks wrote: post #16
MatthewWilkes wrote: post #7

So, semver is great and all, but 0.0.x releases just look silly, in my opinion. I've never seen someone zero index the least significant column before though, which makes it look even worse. Would people actually expect w piece of software marked as version 0.0.0 to be anything more than a placeholder?

It's funny that programmers treat zero-indexing arrays and things as normal (even "correct"), but suddenly zero-indexing versions is something wacky. What's weird to me is that 0.0.0 isn't more common in the developer world, given how frequently we start counting from 0.

I find 0.0.x versions wacky too. Version numbers (in contrast to array subscripts) are only useful in relation to previous version numbers. Ideally when a new version of the software I use comes out I can decide whether to upgrade only by comparing the version number with the one I use. E.g. in semver increased minor number means "new functionality added". So when 0.0.0 version comes out, what does it mean, compared to the absence of software? No functionality at all? :)

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#32

Post by X86BSD »

cyphar wrote: post #24
X86BSD wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All software primarily used on Linux systems. You'll never ever see systemd outside Linux. Ever. BTW good luck with that mess too. Same with yast. You'll never see that outside Linux. Ever. You're creating quite the ecosystem of NIH and Linux only software. Btrfs, systemtap, etc. So "successful" is a seriously objective word as you use it. But good luck, you're going to need it methinks.

> Btrfs, systemtap, etc. It's not the Linux community's fault that Sun wanted to create a license that would make it GPL incompatible. If it were compatible, it probably would've been merged years ago. And CDDL is still copyleft, but it retains all of the restrictions with none of the benefits for users. So it's really the "worst" of both worlds. But you can put that in your pipe and smoke it if you like. > So "succe…

It's funny how other open source projects had no problem adopting ZFS or it's license. Perhaps the issue isn't Sun or the CDDL but rather Linux and the GPL. Perhaps it's the GPL that isn't compatible with others. But that is the entire point of the viral nature of GPL. "You don't have to use our code." Your right and people are beginning not to. I mean seriously if you are so full of zeal you can't see Linux starting to circle the drain because of NIH, refusing to look outside their little tunnel vision world, while they reimplement things others are already solving, and reimplementing them badly, well then enjoy the ride. No one will obviously get you to see reason. But again enjoy your systemd and btrfs and systemtap and poorly implemented Linux only software.

Also I don't smoke, so no pipe was involved in these posts.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#33

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

dunkelheit wrote: post #31
cornstalks wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that programmers treat zero-indexing arrays and things as normal (even "correct"), but suddenly zero-indexing versions is something wacky. What's weird to me is that 0.0.0 isn't more common in the developer world, given how frequently we start counting from 0.

I find 0.0.x versions wacky too. Version numbers (in contrast to array subscripts) are only useful in relation to previous version numbers. Ideally when a new version of the software I use comes out I can decide whether to upgrade only by comparing the version number with the one I use. E.g. in semver increased minor number means "new functionality added". So when 0.0.0 version comes out, what does it mean, compared…

It means "don't use this yet".

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#34

Post by cyphar »

X86BSD wrote: post #32
cyphar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Btrfs, systemtap, etc. It's not the Linux community's fault that Sun wanted to create a license that would make it GPL incompatible. If it were compatible, it probably would've been merged years ago. And CDDL is still copyleft, but it retains all of the restrictions with none of the benefits for users. So it's really the "worst" of both worlds. But you can put that in your pipe and smoke it if you like. > So "succe…

It's funny how other open source projects had no problem adopting ZFS or it's license. Perhaps the issue isn't Sun or the CDDL but rather Linux and the GPL. Perhaps it's the GPL that isn't compatible with others. But that is the entire point of the viral nature of GPL. "You don't have to use our code." Your right and people are beginning not to. I mean seriously if you are so full of zeal you can't see Linux starting…

I'd be happy to use illumos or BSD if the community had strong convictions about free software. They generally don't, so I'll pass.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#35

Post by coldtea »

etatoby wrote: post #28
stephenr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I once mention proprietary software or Microsoft? Is that really how you see the software world, GPL vs Microsoft/proprietary?

Free software is pretty much the opposite of proprietary software, yes, and GPL is the single license that enabled the free software revolution we are all benefiting from. Sure, the battle against greed is far from over, but the benefits are already quite obvious. If people and companies had kept to proprietary EULA and BSD as the only options, we would still be in the dire situation we were in the 90s.

>Free software is pretty much the opposite of proprietary software, yes, and GPL is the single license that enabled the free software revolution we are all benefiting from.

I call BS. GPL just happened to have the GNU stack with it. If the same toolchain (gcc, etc) were released as BSD/MIT from the beginning, it would have been just as well or better.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#36

Post by vesak »

kybernetyk wrote: post #13

>Unlike BitCoin or cash payments, Taler ensures that governments can learn their citizen's total income and thus collect sales, value-added or income taxes Wow, what a feature ...

Well, the world ain't black and white.

Taxes are immoral, but evading taxes is probably more immoral. How low the scales are on both these is dependant on who is ruling you at the moment.

Managing to build our societies around a non-cheatable taxation system would be a huge step forwards for our species.

Just think how huge systems we have built just because most people don't want to pay. How much freedom and creativity and goodwill would be unleashed if nobody had to spend energy around that problem at all. If it all would just work.

Perhaps Taler won't give us that, but at least they're trying. Perhaps some future project that stands on its shoulders will.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#37

Post by njloof »

cyphar wrote: post #5
X86BSD wrote: post #4

GPL'ed. Dead in the water. But it looks interesting. Good luck guys!

Linux. Systemd. GNU. YaST. Git. Blender. These are all programs under the GPL, and the reason they are so successful is because of the defense that copyleft provides against proprietary software. In short, no. Not dead in the water.

Isn't this deployable as a service anyway? You don't even distribute the executable, so no need to distribute your source.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#38

Post by X86BSD »

cyphar wrote: post #34
X86BSD wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how other open source projects had no problem adopting ZFS or it's license. Perhaps the issue isn't Sun or the CDDL but rather Linux and the GPL. Perhaps it's the GPL that isn't compatible with others. But that is the entire point of the viral nature of GPL. "You don't have to use our code." Your right and people are beginning not to. I mean seriously if you are so full of zeal you can't see Linux starting…

I'd be happy to use illumos or BSD if the community had strong convictions about free software. They generally don't, so I'll pass.

I'm not really sure how you can say that but again enjoy your zeal induced tunnel view. You can't get any more free than the BSDL short of public domain. And neither OS has any binary only parts or parts only available if you pay for them that I am aware of. So again i don't know how you view them as not having strong convictions about free software.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#40

Post by cyphar »

njloof wrote: post #37
cyphar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux. Systemd. GNU. YaST. Git. Blender. These are all programs under the GPL, and the reason they are so successful is because of the defense that copyleft provides against proprietary software. In short, no. Not dead in the water.

Isn't this deployable as a service anyway? You don't even distribute the executable, so no need to distribute your source.

Some parts are AGPL, which means that you do.
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