Amphetamine use in America's workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#211

Post by DiabloD3 » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 12:05 PM UTC

drjesusphd wrote: post #199

chillingeffect wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the authoritarian state uses an in-language to signal virtue, overstepping denotations. These are the same people who call non-cops "civilians."

My favorite is when they have the nerve to call vets "civilians".

Yeah, that never ends well. Vets have a certain ability to destroy someone's entire existence using nothing but words and gigantic balls, leaving nothing but a burning crater in the ground, without having to have any imposing threat of violence (ie, how cops are trained to escalate the situation through intimidation, vets don't need such a tactic).

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#212

Post by nommm-nommm » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 12:17 PM UTC

JustUhThought wrote: post #210

This attitude, painting cognitive enhancers with a broad and critical brush, is not helping things. Cognitive enhancers have the ability to improve persona lives and and society on the whole. But, there is a double standard with all things in healthcare. If you want to fix something, then by all means, take as many pills as you want and don't worry about changing lifestyle choices. Take insulin, for example. Or blood…

This article is about amphetamine use. Modafinil is not an amphetamine nor is it amphetamine-like.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#213

Post by ta_339393 » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 12:54 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #135

ta_339393 wrote: post #54

As one who takes methamphetamine (generic Desoxyn) for ADHD, I can't help but take issue with the sensationalism in this article. If someone takes the same low dose I do but doesn't actually have ADHD, how could they be considered "cracked out?" simply because they are faking a diagnosis? We know that low-dose amphetamines improve cognition in healthy individuals regardless of whether or not you have ADHD. We also kn…

Wow, how did you get an rx for that? Did they try tons of amphetamines and finally go for Desoxyn? I agree: It's incredibly something (classist?) that only certain people can legally get amphetamines. I'm sure if you have lots of money, it's far easier to convince a doctor to RX. Whereas if you don't, you can even afford the doctor to diagnose, let alone RX (plus the risk of being labelled a "seeker"). Having essenti…

I asked my psychiatrist about it after doing a lot of research on my own.

I have tried all the other ADHD stimulants and formulations but it wasn't that none of them worked for me or that I required a high dose (I take what is considered an average therapeutic dose).

If you think meth is way more potent than dextroamphetamine, you'd be in for a big surprise. Meth is a very subtle and gentle stimulant, so subtle I often forget I even took a stimulant. This is probably because of the lack of PNS stimulation at these low doses. It's also a little bit more effective than dex because of slightly higher CNS stimulation but the lack of side effects is probably the best feature of meth. It just feels really natural, hard to describe completely.

It is considered a second line medicine because it's thought to be more addictive but I can assure you this is completely unfounded and has to be due to the stigma created by illicit meth abuse. IMO, it is a superior medicine and should be a first line treatment for ADHD.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#214

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 12:57 PM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #209

ramblerman wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has taken various recreational and over the counter drugs I question that sentiment. Having a prescription doesn't make adderall magically different. To me it's very much like speed or cocaine, just longer lasting and more consistent with less of a let down. 1) any child who takes it certainly has an advantage 2) I couldn't fathom taking something that strong every single day for months on end (if not…

I can speak to the long-term effects of two people taking adderall/ritalin. I started taking them about 14 years ago, when I was in early 30s. Being raised by my great depression era grandparents, I was extremely anti-medication. In general, I still am, for myself. It's not right to impose that view on others. You'll see why in a couple of paragraphs. I've been technically focused, on a daily basis, since I was a kid…

[deleted]

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#215

Post by HarryHirsch » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 12:58 PM UTC

programmarchy wrote: post #177

HarryHirsch wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonderfully contrarian? I'd disagree, in fact I'd maintain that what the lady does is not science. How can you argue medical ethics, a subject firmly rooted in observable, shared reality, from first principles and then disregard outcomes? If you intend to do science uou can't omit to check dogma against reality, perhaps those dogmata are no good at all to describe the world. Very telling is another publication of her…

Economic liberties means choice and competition in a market without state-enforced monopolies. US healthcare costs are an outlier because the state enforces insurance cartelization. Obamacare was a gift to insurance corporations, forcing everyone to buy their product. It's inelastic demand at gunpoint, so of course prices are going up. Look back at the history of healthcare to see economic liberty in action when we h…

They sold us the healthcare-for-fee model back in the 1970s and 1980s, and that failed to contain healthcare costs. They are trying HMOs now in Switzerland, and it doesn't work to contain costs. Universities with large medical schools should be in a position to serve as integrated providers, yet you see rarely see them offer such plans to their employees. These are observations from reality.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#216

Post by ta_339393 » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 1:01 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #179

taxicabjesus wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a specific source, it's just the impression that I get from having talked to a few people who had trouble with meth amphetamine. One friend's husband brought cocaine home. That was nice, but it got expensive, so they switched to Meth. After a while she realized she didn't like what it was doing to her personality, so she quit. Then the anxiety started. Xanax helped her not care, then she discovered Alcoh…

Are you really comparing meth to ADHD drugs?

Methamphetamine is an ADHD drug. I take it for my ADHD, with a legal prescription of course.

Ironically it's the most subtle and gentle of all the ADHD stimulants, at least at therapeutic doses. It has a bad reputation because of the abuse of illicitly manufactured meth available on the black market but it's completely unwarranted.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#217

Post by reitanqild » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 1:10 PM UTC

teslabox wrote: post #187

reitanqild wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever stop to think if possibly it could have been worse without R or whatever? Oh, most likely not R, because it doesn't cause addiction if taken according to prescription.

I wonder how humanity ever got anything done, before we had stimulants to treat our ADHD.

Two pointers, assuming good faith:

* Many didn't cope.

* Also there were more physical work to be done.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#218

Post by rwmurrayVT » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 1:16 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #193

robohamburger wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Ritalin to treat my ADHD and that was my reaction as well. I have developed a thick skin over the years to the FUD around amphetamines. I can also see how dangerous it could be taking a drug like this without getting the dosage calculated right. Interestingly a pretty prolific mathematician, Paul Erdős used amphetamines [1]. Not sure which one(s) though. I don't think he had a prescription but I think it worked…

I think the issue with amphetamines is because if taken recreationally the quantities and methods of taking are vastly different. So when I was at school I was on something like 20mg of Ritalin (0.02g) twice a day via a pill that was digested by my stomach. Even that lead to issues with diet and sleep and anxiety. Whereas if we're at a rave we'll happily share 1g+ (say between 2 of us which is 12x the amount) of amph…

Ritalin is a phenethylamine, not an amphetamine.

You are correct about the comedown from an amphetamine binge being awful. Thankfully, most business professionals and working people aren't dosing like they're at TomorrowLand.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#219

Post by rwmurrayVT » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 1:25 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #145

forgetsusername wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if someone without ADHD uses them in the same manor, then it's dangerous. While people on both sides of the argument are guzzling coffee and tea.

Anecdata: Once I started ADHD treatment I went from drinking 5-6+ pints of builder's tea[1] one after another into the afternoon, to one, maybe two, in the morning. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Builder's_tea

I have a similar anecdote. I have no appetite for coffee anymore. I've also got very little appetite for alcohol. I think in someways I was self-medicating with coffee/tea, which in turn, was causing me to self-medicate with alcohol/marijuana to sleep.

In my opinion, anyone claiming that it's a "personality trait" or a made up condition is a moron. It's absolutely turned my life around. After getting my dosage lined up correctly I feel as if I'm finally living normal.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#220

Post by Strangework » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 1:25 PM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #209

ramblerman wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has taken various recreational and over the counter drugs I question that sentiment. Having a prescription doesn't make adderall magically different. To me it's very much like speed or cocaine, just longer lasting and more consistent with less of a let down. 1) any child who takes it certainly has an advantage 2) I couldn't fathom taking something that strong every single day for months on end (if not…

I can speak to the long-term effects of two people taking adderall/ritalin. I started taking them about 14 years ago, when I was in early 30s. Being raised by my great depression era grandparents, I was extremely anti-medication. In general, I still am, for myself. It's not right to impose that view on others. You'll see why in a couple of paragraphs. I've been technically focused, on a daily basis, since I was a kid…

I would actually like to know if you had dosed this morning. This is a rather lengthy narrative! If you had(not) dosed this morning, how would you have written this differently?

Thanks for giving your two-cents and personal experience. Most of my friends, myself included, use amphetamines for recreational purposes. There's been a vague understanding that it works differently for people with ADHD, though I've never personally heard such a detailed testimony.

It sounds like your son is lucky to have you and your wife as parents. Bless you and your family!