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Amphetamine use in America's workforce

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Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately you can pretty much nanny-pick a study that supports your view for just about any purported topic and view relating to drug use. Secondly, that study is flawed because it fails to acknowledge what is known as the 30%-30%-30% jump. The difference in intelligence between a retard and a normal person is the same difference of intelligence between a normal person and a genius. Different boosts account for d…

What about people diagnosed as adults? People no longer affected by their parents will?

Then they can make their own choices about responsible use informed by the restraint and experience with other drugs (alcohol, etc.) It is far different, because it is much easier to become wired for a drug if you grow up using it (and being told to use it, by an adult authority), than dabbling in it later on, with a freedom to abstain.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#162
post #9

I think this is a little bit sensationalized at the very least. This excerpt in particular caught me off guard. "Abuse by young professionals is distressingly common—Wall Street traders, software engineers, dentists, nurses, and lawyers, all cracked out of their minds trying to keep up with the competition." Yes, I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and yes I have an Adderall prescription. But I'd hardly call myself…

Seriously. I get more buzzed off a couple cups of coffee than vyvanse, but vyvanse helps me stay focused much longer. I'd have no chance of attaining the life I want to live without antidepressants and some stimulants, the weight of life is crushing without them.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#163

This is an important topic, not only from the perspective of drug dependency and substance use disorders (SUDs) research, but also re: potentially misleading statements which may discourage use among people who could benefit from stimulant-class medication. I have treated several hundred individuals with amphetamine, methylphenidate and related compounds, primarily for ADHD in adults and adolescents. Everyone should…

Thanks for your comments.

A few years ago, in my late 30s, I was diagnosed with bipolar, ADHD, and anxiety disorder (all three have high comorbidity, interestingly). When I got the diagnosis, I was a little bothered. In my family and culture, it's considered a weakness to have mental illness or even talk about it. One is just supposed to 'tough it out'. And, I did tough it out up until then. But, I had finally reached my breaking point and sought out help.

One of the first things the doctor asked me was to describe my family history. My family is largely comprised of highly-intelligent underachievers. Although my parents and siblings are all in the 3 standard deviation IQ club, I was only the first to be able to hold down a regular job and finish college.

When I described my parents' behavior and history to the doctor, he was able to quickly see the patterns and inherited traits. We were all suffering from something similar that had held us back from success (and having general life satisfaction). In fact, after seeing how much easier life has become since I began treatment, I felt terrible for my parents. For most of their life they suffered and ended up self-medicating with much worse things.

I find the backlash against ADHD treatment and all mental illnesses to be extremely classist. There are likely large portions of the population who could have achieved much more happiness and success if they only had had treatment. There seems to be a movement to keep these people untreated for dubious reasons.

And, the downsides of ADHD treatment are quite minor in comparison. In fact, having experimented with different substances over the years, I find Adderall to be almost insignificant. I occasionally miss weeks at a time and feel no noticeable withdrawal. In comparison, alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine are all extremely difficult to quit both physically and psychologically.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ADHD is a diagnosed medical disorder that affects millions of people in America. Why do we still stigmatize it in the modern age? ADHD is a meaningless psychiatric diagnostic [1] of symptoms, not cause. The diagnosis is used to put millions of people in America on maintenance doses of addictive psychotropic drugs. Routine use of amphetamines almost always causes people's mental conditions to worsen, eventually. Ton…

>Routine use of amphetamines almost always causes people's mental conditions to worsen, eventually. I've not heard this before..do you have a source? Quite interested.

I don't have a specific source, it's just the impression that I get from having talked to a few people who had trouble with meth amphetamine. One friend's husband brought cocaine home. That was nice, but it got expensive, so they switched to Meth. After a while she realized she didn't like what it was doing to her personality, so she quit. Then the anxiety started. Xanax helped her not care, then she discovered Alcohol...

Here's a random quote from a mainstream medical source:

"Mood disorders similar to hypomania and mania can be elicited during intoxication with amphetamines. Depression can occur during withdrawal, and repeated use of amphetamines can produce antidepressant-resistant amphetamine-induced depression. ..."

- "Amphetamine-Related Psychiatric Disorders" (emphasis added), http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/289973-overview

Mad in America makes the case that mental health treatment is a make-work endeavor. http://www.madinamerica.com/

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ADHD is a diagnosed medical disorder that affects millions of people in America. Why do we still stigmatize it in the modern age? ADHD is a meaningless psychiatric diagnostic [1] of symptoms, not cause. The diagnosis is used to put millions of people in America on maintenance doses of addictive psychotropic drugs. Routine use of amphetamines almost always causes people's mental conditions to worsen, eventually. Ton…

First of all, ADHD is hardly the only disease or disorder with an unclear cause. Alzheimer's, autism, and fibromyalgia come to mind. Second of all, here is a comprehensive list of peer-reviewed studies defending the existence of ADHD and the efficacy of amphetamines for ADHD (much better than some random anecdote of an improperly diagnosed taxi passenger): https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/3at2u2/psa_the_existe.…

Robert Whitaker makes the case in Anatomy of an Epidemic [1] that psychiatric medications amplify the problems they supposedly treat.

[1] http://www.madinamerica.com/product/62043/

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#166
post #26
post #9

I think this is a little bit sensationalized at the very least. This excerpt in particular caught me off guard. "Abuse by young professionals is distressingly common—Wall Street traders, software engineers, dentists, nurses, and lawyers, all cracked out of their minds trying to keep up with the competition." Yes, I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and yes I have an Adderall prescription. But I'd hardly call myself…

Agreed. I was struck by the same line, "cracked out of their minds"... very biased. I don't know if "abuse" used to have a coherent meaning, but these days it boils down to "used in a way I don't like". Drug use is certainly a mixed bag but it deserves a balanced treatment, not scare tactics. The article even goes on to list great accomplishments that were made possible (or at least supported) by drug use. Talk about…

Link to full article: http://jme.bmj.com/content/38/10/579.long

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#167
post #43

I can't help but ask myself whether we should be wondering why Americans can't make it without drug-modified behavior, or whether this is better or worse than alternatives such as cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine, etc. Humans in societies have been chemically altering their moods since we discovered mood-altering chemicals. Stress occurs inside and outside civilized workforces, and people take measures to mitigate stres…

Anecdotally I think Europeans are more likely to self medicate with alcohol and cigarettes rather than prescription pills which are more common in the USA. In my experience the culture around having a few drinks after work and even having the occasional cigarette is far more relaxed in the European countries I've been to than just about anywhere in the USA. But as I've said, I have zero evidence that any of this is e…

> I have zero evidence that any of this is even true - just my observations

Observations are evidence. You meant that you had no non-anecdotal evidence.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#168
post #9

I think this is a little bit sensationalized at the very least. This excerpt in particular caught me off guard. "Abuse by young professionals is distressingly common—Wall Street traders, software engineers, dentists, nurses, and lawyers, all cracked out of their minds trying to keep up with the competition." Yes, I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and yes I have an Adderall prescription. But I'd hardly call myself…

I use Ritalin to treat my ADHD and that was my reaction as well. I have developed a thick skin over the years to the FUD around amphetamines. I can also see how dangerous it could be taking a drug like this without getting the dosage calculated right.

Interestingly a pretty prolific mathematician, Paul Erdős used amphetamines [1]. Not sure which one(s) though. I don't think he had a prescription but I think it worked out OK.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#169

The comments in this thread seem to suggest a reasonable subset of people here partake. Is there any reason you feel the need to? I went to a pretty rough college where I had standard 24 hour straight homework sessions once or twice a week. And I used caffeine maybe once a week at most. I work at a startup where the work culture isn't as competitive as what I feel is the norm, but even listening to friends at there d…

Yeah, it seems like nearly every commenter on this article has indicated they are on some sort of prescription stimulant, yikes.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#170

The comments in this thread seem to suggest a reasonable subset of people here partake. Is there any reason you feel the need to? I went to a pretty rough college where I had standard 24 hour straight homework sessions once or twice a week. And I used caffeine maybe once a week at most. I work at a startup where the work culture isn't as competitive as what I feel is the norm, but even listening to friends at there d…

> Is there any reason you feel the need to?

I can't cope with boredom. It feels like a prolonged low intensity panic attack to me. I will do almost anything to avoid it. In a work environment that includes making bad choices merely to avoid putting myself in situations where I might have to do boring things. I think ADHD is actually under diagnosed and a lot of people would be happier if they were taking medication for it. That's probably the reason the people this article cites are trying to self medicate for it. If it wasn't a problem they wouldn't be looking for a solution.

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