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Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

nytimes.com

121–130 of 347 posts

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the Uber blogs and public statements, the company is far more ambitious than simply being the ride sharer with the largest market share. The company's vision is to make transportation as seamless and reliable as running water. They have other projects going on right now, such as delivery truck automation and self-driving cars. I would consider them to be competing not only with Lyft but also with Hertz…

Please, this is all hype to capture investors. What does Uber have other than money that gives them an advantage in self driving cars? Having users doesn't matter either. Google could add self driving taxi summoning to Google Maps overnight and we'd all be using it.

On my Android phone, when I look up directions for something, it shows something like this in Google Maps:

    Drive | 10 minutes
    Bus   | 35 minutes
    Walk  | 75 minutes
    Bike  | 25 minutes
    UberX | 13 minutes
This could be some add-in from having the Uber app installed; I have Lyft installed as well and it doesn't appear.

I agree that this "like running water" tag line is a bit over the top.

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#122

I've always been a little confused about uber's capital needs. When I first heard about uber, the part I thought was super-clever was that you wouldn't _need_ lots of capital because all the drivers would have their own cars. Leveraging the latent capital of one side of the two-sided market was the genius of it. (Airbnb too) Same for the staffing -- hook up both sides of the market. No need to pay anyone out of your…

They need lower prices to subsidize costs and exterminate the competition, then the prices will go up.

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, this is all hype to capture investors. What does Uber have other than money that gives them an advantage in self driving cars? Having users doesn't matter either. Google could add self driving taxi summoning to Google Maps overnight and we'd all be using it.

On my Android phone, when I look up directions for something, it shows something like this in Google Maps: Drive | 10 minutes Bus | 35 minutes Walk | 75 minutes Bike | 25 minutes UberX | 13 minutes This could be some add-in from having the Uber app installed; I have Lyft installed as well and it doesn't appear. I agree that this "like running water" tag line is a bit over the top.

Its a standard feature on mobile, it does require the providers app installed, and there are a limited number of supported providers:

https://maps.googleblog.com/2016/03/your-car-has-arrived-mor...

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#124

I've always been a little confused about uber's capital needs. When I first heard about uber, the part I thought was super-clever was that you wouldn't _need_ lots of capital because all the drivers would have their own cars. Leveraging the latent capital of one side of the two-sided market was the genius of it. (Airbnb too) Same for the staffing -- hook up both sides of the market. No need to pay anyone out of your…

In a steady state, the basic business is extremely capital efficient. Pedal-to-the-metal-all-out-global-land-grab stage benefits from lots of capital.

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find the link because the huge media churn makes it impossible to find anything that isn't the most recent story, but didn't they ban Chris Sacca from the Uber office for hanging around and buying secondary shares from people? I think the lockdown happened after that.

You're probably thinking of Sacca and Twitter: http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/27/jp-morgan-twitter-chris-sac... He may have done the same for Uber, but I haven't heard anything about that at all.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad/2015/03/25/how-ventur...

"the Uber CEO got upset with Sacca for trying to repeat his Twitter move of buying up secondary shares in Uber from other initial investors."

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#126
post #5

Sincere question, can someone explain to me a plausible scenario at this point by which early investors actually receive a payout even slightly commensurate with their supposedly incredible investment? For example, how can someone in the seed round genuinely be able to cash out given the unbelievable amount of dilution that has taken place. What are the plausible scenarios where this occurs? EDIT: Specifically asking…

Plenty of people can envision a $100B to $1T valuation at some point.

I don't understand your point about seed round investors since they are sitting on some of the biggest returns ever in the history of investing.

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#127

I've always been a little confused about uber's capital needs. When I first heard about uber, the part I thought was super-clever was that you wouldn't _need_ lots of capital because all the drivers would have their own cars. Leveraging the latent capital of one side of the two-sided market was the genius of it. (Airbnb too) Same for the staffing -- hook up both sides of the market. No need to pay anyone out of your…

I believe that your assumption of insane driver subsidies is indeed the reason they are sucking down so much money. That is a problem, because the moment that people have to pay the actual costs of an Uber ride, they may go back to taxis or driving their own cars. The only strategy I can see with the absurd amounts they are raising is that they are trying to get enough money to sustain the subsidies until they kill a…

> The only strategy I can see

A more cynical version: they're trying to pump up their valuation, IPO, and dump their stock before anyone notices.

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#128
post #69
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems divorced from reality to me, though I claim no real special expertise. They seem to have no more ability to be a monopoly than any other logistics or transportation powerhouse. The market cap of UPS is ~$90bn, and FedEx ~$40bn. And those companies have a lot of real actual assets* and (arguably) much stronger network effects than a local taxi replacement company. It's not that it's so implausible it couldn't…

One thing I'd like to know (and I am sure someone has answered this somewhere) is the amount of people using Uber in their own town vs. people who travel and use Uber. If in their own town, it seems entirely possible for a local strong competitor to offer a better product or service. For travelers that is less of a risk since you go with the brand you know (which traditionally has been a taxi cab). In particular some…

My guess would be 90-95% locals in most/all towns.

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#129
post #120
post #5

Sincere question, can someone explain to me a plausible scenario at this point by which early investors actually receive a payout even slightly commensurate with their supposedly incredible investment? For example, how can someone in the seed round genuinely be able to cash out given the unbelievable amount of dilution that has taken place. What are the plausible scenarios where this occurs? EDIT: Specifically asking…

>plausible scenario Uber becomes the cab of choice for 2.5bn people, the rough number who have cell phones. Value those at $50 each and you have a $125bn valuation for the floatation. Not sure it'll happen but that's probably the kind of thing the investors are thinking.

"Uber becomes the cab of choice for 2.5bn people, the rough number who have cell phones."

I don't think they'll get anywhere close that number.

- First, it assumes that Uber has no competition, but there's Lyft, Didi (in China) and lots of local cab companies, some of which even have apps of their own.

- It's much easier to afford a cell phone than it is to be able to afford taking cabs on a regular basis. Many of the 2.5bn people who have cell phones live in poverty.

- Many of the 2.5bn people who have cell phones own their own cars, and would only use a cab if they were on a business trip.

- These 2.5bn people live in many countries, not all of which will agree that Uber drivers can be independent contractors. Uber might not want to enter markets under those conditions (they left Austin merely because of a dispute over background checks[1]).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11652614

Re: Uber Turns to Saudi Arabia for $3.5B Cash Infusion

#130

So what if they execute people for what they think are crimes? Who are you to judge what people should or should not do? What you label as evil someone will label as good. There is no absolute evil/good, as you're trying to portray it. It only your opinion vs. their opinion.

Is this really a worthwhile discussion? Seems like you are just playing devil's advocate for the sake of it.
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