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An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

reuters.com

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Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#251

Post by douche »

leesalminen wrote: post #78

I was enrolled in a Business Calculus course (100 level) my freshman year. The "instructor" of the class at the front of the room could not speak English intelligibly. I speak multiple languages and am decent at interpreting broken English, but it was not even close to understandable. I left, never went back (except for exams). I still passed just fine, but really was a terrible intro experience to college at a large…

Freshman Calculus classes are infamous for being a dumping ground for professors/grad students that can't teach. It's absurd, but it acts as a really perverse weeding-out function.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#252

Post by msie »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #241
jchiu1106 wrote: post #133

As a former Chinese international student graduated from one of the top Canadian universities with distinction, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the toxic culture permeated the Chinese visa student community is definitely responsible for the high rate of cheating. Most Chinese visa students came to study in the west did not came to pursue academic excellence. They (and their parents most likely) see it…

>The media singling out a group such as the Chinese visa students is certainly a popular thing to do to gain clicks, but it's a little unfair. Did you bother to read the article? There is a cheating industry that caters to the Chinese. This is a valid topic to write about. I think going full politically correct just makes us all stupid. This industry exists for a reason; there's demand from the Chinese and this most…

Yes, there is an industry catering to the Chinese but making the leap that only the Chinese culture tolerates cheating and copying is idiotic. A problem with news articles is they can only focus on one topic and sadly for some readers that creates a myopic view of the world. Tomorrow you'll read about welfare fraud, tax fraud, investment fraud and insurance fraud and not realize that there is cheating everywhere in every culture. Remember diploma mills? They catered to American employees who wanted to beef up their resumes and get promotions at work. Remember news about grade inflation in American high schools? Remember the use of steroids in baseball? Or painkillers in football? Or insider trading? Or Ponzi schemes? Or insurance companies not honoring their policies? Deflategate? Stealing signals? Stealing playbooks? Videoing rival teams? Bribing amateur athletes? Cheating in Multiplayer games (Halo ;-))? Yeah.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#253

Post by enjalot »

ascorbic wrote: post #173
jchiu1106 wrote: post #133

As a former Chinese international student graduated from one of the top Canadian universities with distinction, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the toxic culture permeated the Chinese visa student community is definitely responsible for the high rate of cheating. Most Chinese visa students came to study in the west did not came to pursue academic excellence. They (and their parents most likely) see it…

I understand your frustration. The difference is at least clear to most other students, even if it's not so clear elsewhere. When I attended university in the UK about ten years ago, about 1/3 of the students on my course were Chinese. Unfortunately I reckon the majority of these were suspect. Many could barely speak English, and when doing group work would contribute to the written work in broken English, but then m…

A lot of Chinese students learn to read and write English perfectly but can barely speak it because of the way it is taught in Chinese schools. Learning to speak requires practice speaking as well as hearing, and there arent enough teachers who can speak fluent English to set an example. Try learning Chinese sometime and see what its like.

I've noticed a more general trend where white people assume those who don't speak like them are stupid. this will end up hurting them as the world grows more connected and more people from different backgrounds end up in the same place.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#254

Post by studentrob »

msie wrote: post #252
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The media singling out a group such as the Chinese visa students is certainly a popular thing to do to gain clicks, but it's a little unfair. Did you bother to read the article? There is a cheating industry that caters to the Chinese. This is a valid topic to write about. I think going full politically correct just makes us all stupid. This industry exists for a reason; there's demand from the Chinese and this most…

Yes, there is an industry catering to the Chinese but making the leap that only the Chinese culture tolerates cheating and copying is idiotic. A problem with news articles is they can only focus on one topic and sadly for some readers that creates a myopic view of the world. Tomorrow you'll read about welfare fraud, tax fraud, investment fraud and insurance fraud and not realize that there is cheating everywhere in e…

> making the leap that only the Chinese culture tolerates cheating and copying is idiotic

Where do you see it written in the article that only China cheats?

The authors chose to write about a business that helps Chinese students cheat. It sounds like you would prefer that they write an article about every place that has cheating in the world. Do you expect to be able to dictate the topics for author?

Dictating speech is China's game, not America's

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#255

Post by cloudjacker »

jchiu1106 wrote: post #133

As a former Chinese international student graduated from one of the top Canadian universities with distinction, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the toxic culture permeated the Chinese visa student community is definitely responsible for the high rate of cheating. Most Chinese visa students came to study in the west did not came to pursue academic excellence. They (and their parents most likely) see it…

> Academic dishonesty is certainly not a Chinese-only problem. The media singling out a group such as the Chinese visa students is certainly a popular thing to do to gain clicks, but it's a little unfair.

Nobody suggested that academic disonesty is chinese only, everyone suggests that there is an industry that reliable will attract wealthy Chinese families to pay for preferential treatment at top universities. It would be dishonest to say otherwise.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#256

Post by darawk »

rtpg wrote: post #171
whatshisface wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Taking Adderall to study doesn't make you less competent at the subject in question" What happens when you stop taking it? We frown upon doping in school for the same reason we frown upon it in sports. It creates an environment where people are forced to deal with the side effects to compete, or receive a lower grade. Employers will expect that you continue your performance outside of school. If you stop doping aft…

Plus, since Adderall and the like are in limited supply, you're preventing people who actually need it to function from getting the access they need.

Adderall is not in limited supply. It is incredibly trivial and cheap to manufacture.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#257

Post by studentrob »

sambe wrote: post #232
simonsarris wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How universities and colleges can raise tuition an average of 8% a year and get away without doing a minimum of due diligence around cheating is beyond me. Why would they? The students and their parents aren't paying for hard (which includes catching cheaters). They're paying for the degree. If college was harder the perceived ROI* would be less. As far as I can tell colleges are happy if the students keep showing…

I would think they care about diluting their brand. At some point these degrees you say are worthless will mean people stop paying - don't you think?

> I would think they care about diluting their brand.

They should, but nobody has sued them over this issue of widespread cheating yet.

Something similar happened at UNC when athletes were taking bogus classes [1], but the judge tossed out the case because the students waited too long to sue [2]

FIRE is a firm whose stated goal is to defend individual rights in education [3].

> At some point these degrees you say are worthless will mean people stop paying - don't you think?

Yes, if there's an alternative to college to earning a higher salary. But, most parents aren't advising their kids to get a blue collar job like Mike Rowe espouses. Parents want their kids to go to college. They're not as concerned about their kids' debt, and high school kids haven't yet learned to be wary of student loan debt. The moment they discover that student debt is a problem is the moment it's too late, when they've failed out of school or look for a job and can't find one.

Rather than pushing college upon everyone, we should be educating students about debt and other options. At the same time, we should be pulling back some manufacturing jobs to provide such other options. The US isn't going to survive on elitist service industries alone. We need to understand that while every human being is capable of very high intellect, every person in America does not need or want to be in the services industry. Obama has been pushing to recall manufacturing jobs [4], so that's a start

[1] http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/01/sport/ncaa-response-to-law...

[2] http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/articl...

[3] https://www.thefire.org/

[4] https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/01/11/remar...

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#258

Post by stuxnet79 »

xenophonf wrote: post #204
bigtunacan wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a USA native I can confirm that it is even simpler here. You can just say, "Sup?"

Us Chicagoans optimize that to "Yo!"

I thought it was 'jo' or 'joe'. I run into a lot of Chicagoans and they pepper their speech with 'joe'. I was always like 'joe' who? Found out recently it is a stand-in for dude.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#259

Post by Larrikin »

stuxnet79 wrote: post #258
xenophonf wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Us Chicagoans optimize that to "Yo!"

I thought it was 'jo' or 'joe'. I run into a lot of Chicagoans and they pepper their speech with 'joe'. I was always like 'joe' who? Found out recently it is a stand-in for dude.

More confusingly it's a pretty harsh insult for a female in Philly

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#260

Post by studentrob »

enjalot wrote: post #253
ascorbic wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your frustration. The difference is at least clear to most other students, even if it's not so clear elsewhere. When I attended university in the UK about ten years ago, about 1/3 of the students on my course were Chinese. Unfortunately I reckon the majority of these were suspect. Many could barely speak English, and when doing group work would contribute to the written work in broken English, but then m…

A lot of Chinese students learn to read and write English perfectly but can barely speak it because of the way it is taught in Chinese schools. Learning to speak requires practice speaking as well as hearing, and there arent enough teachers who can speak fluent English to set an example. Try learning Chinese sometime and see what its like. I've noticed a more general trend where white people assume those who don't sp…

> I've noticed a more general trend where white people assume those who don't speak like them are stupid

This is likely miscommunication and it doesn't matter anyway. Who cares what other people think?

As a white person living in Asia I get the same vibe sometimes. I just shrug it off and power through whatever conversation needs to happen.

> this will end up hurting them as the world grows more connected and more people from different backgrounds end up in the same place.

People live and learn

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