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Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

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Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#131

Post by toomuchtodo »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #120

As others have pointed out this can happen in France given the way in which laws are prosecuted, my sister lives there part time and really likes this aspect of the country. That said, its really interesting to watch such powerful interests dance around (in a more general sense) shooting each other. The whole scheme which companies like Apple, Google, others use to "legitimately" minimize their tax burden and the fin…

Is this pressure enough to force out "legitimate methods of EU tax avoidance" via legislation?

It's really, really hard for me to sympathize with US tech companies given their financial situation:

> "Apple, Microsoft and Google Hold 23% Of All US Corporate Cash Outside the Finance Sector

> Apple leads the pack with $215.7 billion in cash, followed by Microsoft at $102.6 billion, and Google at $73.1 billion.

http://www.geekwire.com/2016/apple-microsoft-google-hold-nea...

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#132

Post by SilasX »

Bartweiss wrote: post #37
bambax wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about American law, but in French the notion exists and is called "abus de droit"; just because you can do something "in general", you can't do it with the specific purpose of circumventing another legal obligation. For example, as an Irish company, you can open a subsidiary in France to do business in France. That's a right. But if you're doing business in France essentially, you can't make the French com…

In America, there's at least one clear example of this - laws against "structuring". Basically, they say that it's criminal to arrange financial transactions with the purpose of avoiding laws about financial transactions. As an example, banks are required to report all deposits of $20,000. It's a right to deposit $19,999 into a bank account, nothing wrong there. But to deposit $19,999 five times in a row, rather than…

Does this raise all sorts of issues related to the Sorites Paradox and induction?

"It's illegal to break the transaction into pieces of size n-1 to circumvent the law against n sized pieces. And so it's illegal to break it into n-2 sized pieces to circumvent the circumvention of breaking into n sized pieces. And so it's illegal to ..."

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#133

Post by gravypod »

allendoerfer wrote: post #91
mike_hearn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, as an Irish company, you can open a subsidiary in France to do business in France. The whole point of the EU single market is that you do not have to do that. You can set up shop in Ireland and sell to the French market until the cows come home. You only owe Irish taxes (modulo the recent completely crazy VAT changes). Laws that say "forget the law, anything we think is unreasonable is illegal" are a gro…

>Laws that say "forget the law, anything we think is unreasonable is illegal" are a growing problem in Europe. It makes the EU look like fools Not trying to start a flamewar here, but the common German/European perspective on the US legal system consists of corporations owning it (because of huge costs), consumers abusing it ("cat in microwave/washing machine/toaster", unreasonable compensations, class action lawsuit…

We might have our kinks, but I don't think that most of the people in jail ended up in there because "Yea, what you were doing was allowed by the law, but you know we kind of didn't like it".

When that finally starts to happen in the USA, you can count on me being in the streets protesting.

Edit: You may also want to consider the current practices in Germany regarding frivolous law suits against websites. We aren't the only country with this problem. So is every place.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#134

Post by allendoerfer »

kbenson wrote: post #123
allendoerfer wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying that it is absolutely true, just that it is the notion many have: In the US you can do something stupid and blame the manufacturer for the damages, if it was not saying in the manual, that you cannot do it. Combine that with uncapped and ridiculously high compensation claims plus class action lawsuits, which are not a thing over here, and you get a comical impression. As I said, this may not be totall…

I wasn't trying to imply you were saying it was true, I was just trying to figure out what belief of Europeans you were trying to convey, since that idea is so foreign to me. > class action lawsuits, which are not a thing over here, and you get a comical impression. Class actions have a very important place in the law, and they are a thing in parts of Europe[1], and are becoming more so, because they serve a very imp…

>Class actions have a very important place in the law, and they are a thing in parts of Europe[1], and are becoming more so, because they serve a very important need[2]. It gets abused, but so does everything in the legal system, that doesn't mean it's inherently a bad idea.

My view on it is a way for lawyers to make big money by recruiting clients not the other way around. It gives the impression, that it is all about the money, not about being right.

In Germany there is a thing called "Nebenklage" ("accessory prosecution"), which makes it possible for individuals to join the state attorney, once he started a lawsuit. This is how big scandals are handled and victims can get compensations without lawyers fishing for clients.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#135

Post by Nadya »

arcticfox wrote: post #119
Nadya wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>cat in microwave How oddly specific....were you referencing this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMH8Tof69SE I do agree the U.S has a problem with rather frivulious lawsuits over "not following the letter of the law" or "wasn't mentioned in the safety manual to not do this thing that should have been common sense". It seems when people think "American legal system" things like this come to mind: http://i.imgur.com/…

The peanuts picture is funny, but it's 100% the simple. logical, and safe way to do it.

I was defending it ;)

I find it absolutely hilarious whenever I see it - but simple laws with "silly consequences" are better than complex laws that are difficult to follow, let alone enforce. Not to mention having to come up with and define products that would fit into the exceptions list, and investigating whether or not the product actually - blah blah blah. Bunch of overhead.

Better use of tax payer money to say "if it contains one of these allergens, say so on the packaging" and be done with it. No questions asked and it doesn't complicate the law to avoid saying something silly like "peanuts may contain peanuts".

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#136

Post by toomuchtodo »

JBReefer wrote: post #94
nametakenobv wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea is in place for every government, everywhere in world, at any point in history.

Can you cite that? That's certainly not the opinion of ~50% of Americans

Which might explain why Americans are driven slave labor with little to no protections and a laughable excuse for social safety net.

Just because an opinion is majority, does not make it intelligent, nor right.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#137

Post by DanBC »

gravypod wrote: post #133
allendoerfer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Laws that say "forget the law, anything we think is unreasonable is illegal" are a growing problem in Europe. It makes the EU look like fools Not trying to start a flamewar here, but the common German/European perspective on the US legal system consists of corporations owning it (because of huge costs), consumers abusing it ("cat in microwave/washing machine/toaster", unreasonable compensations, class action lawsuit…

We might have our kinks, but I don't think that most of the people in jail ended up in there because "Yea, what you were doing was allowed by the law, but you know we kind of didn't like it". When that finally starts to happen in the USA, you can count on me being in the streets protesting. Edit: You may also want to consider the current practices in Germany regarding frivolous law suits against websites. We aren't t…

How many people are in jail for life without parole because of 3 strikes laws?

Thus in prison for life because their 3rd minor crime tips them over 3 strikes?

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#138

Post by PascalsMugger »

arcticfox wrote: post #119
Nadya wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>cat in microwave How oddly specific....were you referencing this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMH8Tof69SE I do agree the U.S has a problem with rather frivulious lawsuits over "not following the letter of the law" or "wasn't mentioned in the safety manual to not do this thing that should have been common sense". It seems when people think "American legal system" things like this come to mind: http://i.imgur.com/…

The peanuts picture is funny, but it's 100% the simple. logical, and safe way to do it.

I think perhaps a more subtle warning would be to have the container sense an rfid tag in peanut allergic peoples' hands and set off a warning alarm and flashing lights.

Re: Google's Paris HQ raided in tax probe

#140

Post by weberc2 »

tomp wrote: post #49
mike_hearn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really about tax loopholes. It's about France being uncompetitive and unwilling to change. Google advertisers sign contracts with a company in Ireland because Ireland decided to effectively not apply corporation taxes (i.e. use a low rate and allow a variety of schemes that reduce the real rate even further). They did this fully knowingly ... the policy has been popular with voters ... because they wanted…

It's completely within the right of Ireland and Irish citizens to promote investment by lowering the tax rates, as it is within the right of France and French citizens to tax companies that earn profits in France according to French tax law. I really don't see a problem.

If the article is to be believed, the problem is that France is prosecuting law-abiding companies, presumably because they're doing business in rival nations.
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