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Why Suburbia Sucks

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Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#291

Post by MisterBastahrd »

brightball wrote: post #276
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then people in the city are assholes for scoffing at the poor, because nobody in middle-class and up suburbia thinks that Olive Garden is fancy.

Funny story. I'm from a smallish town with an average income of about 40k / year and it was MAJOR news when they finally got an Olive Garden. Apparently there is some strict criteria that Olive Garden uses to place their restaurants and whenever the city finally qualified it was a huge thing for economic planners, all over the paper. My dad called to tell me about it.

Yeah, and they do the same thing when a McDonald's opens in a town for the first time. It doesn't mean they think it's "fancy."

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#292

Post by matwood »

humbleMouse wrote: post #85
matwood wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you are seeing is that not all suburbs are created equal. I grew up in the burbs and live in the burbs now. Nothing in the article matches up to my experience. I am also on the coast in a smaller city so it is hard to have explicit city and explicit burb.

That is definitely what I am saying. Minneapolis is an interesting place because rent/home prices are actually more in the suburbs than in the cool parts of the city. Furthermore, our highways are structured basically so that there are rings of highways that circle around the city. You can drive for miles on these highways and it is nothing but flat open land with cookie cutter houses and the same shops and strip mal…

I tried living inland for a few years. Denver was an awesome place, but I just missed the ocean too much. Given the general push towards the coast, I think it seems to be the trend.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#293

Post by dkuntz2 »

tptacek wrote: post #240
vasilipupkin wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oak Park, Evanston, Wilmette, pretty much all of north shore

Sure, you can say there are four such suburbs: Oak Park/River Forest and Evanston/Wilmette. To me, each suburb pair is essentially one area, but I can't defend that argument with a straight face here. (I live in Oak Park). We also have a lot of walkable, tree-lined suburbs without huge setbacks and, with the exception of blighted commercial drags like Butterfield and Roosevelt, few of the traffic setbacks and parking…

In Oak Park at least that's only because they kept getting rid of the parking lots, to the extent that there's now town valet parking (which is insane to me).

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#294

Post by Maarten88 »

notlisted wrote: post #288
Maarten88 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a suburb in the Netherlands and recently visited a school friend who now lives in a nice US suburb. We both have families with kids about the same age. We compared our living conditions. His beautiful wooden house stands on ten times the area as mine, with a very nice garden and ample parking space. It looks very nice. But my concrete/brick house is bigger inside, and much better constructed. Parking space…

It all depends on where you live Maarten. I'm from Holland. Moved to a 'burb' three years ago after nearly 20 years in NYC. We picked a town where some of the things you mention are still a reality (spontaneous play, kids walk to school in groups, biking is difficult because... hills). Meanwhile, I know that the situation you sketch isn't the reality anymore in large parts of Holland either (many more cars, fewer new…

I'm sure the suburb you live in is much nicer than the suburbs pictured in the article. My friends' neighborhood certainly is. I think the US standard of living, if you're privileged enough to be able to afford it, is very high.

Still, if your house is on an acre of area, that must have consequences. It makes infrastructure more expensive and increases distances. Do the roads in your neighborhood have walkways? How many college/middle schools can your kids choose from? Is there community life / sports clubs / shopping / restaurants other than pizza and burgers reachable without car?

I mentioned the bus/snow situation because my friend told me the school had closed for something like 20 days last year and had to extend classes into summer to make up the time. And both of us have fond memories biking to school for 10km in -admittedly Dutch- snowstorms, having fun. The US attitude towards risk still feels silly to me.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#295

Post by notlisted »

Maarten88 wrote: post #294
notlisted wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on where you live Maarten. I'm from Holland. Moved to a 'burb' three years ago after nearly 20 years in NYC. We picked a town where some of the things you mention are still a reality (spontaneous play, kids walk to school in groups, biking is difficult because... hills). Meanwhile, I know that the situation you sketch isn't the reality anymore in large parts of Holland either (many more cars, fewer new…

I'm sure the suburb you live in is much nicer than the suburbs pictured in the article. My friends' neighborhood certainly is. I think the US standard of living, if you're privileged enough to be able to afford it, is very high. Still, if your house is on an acre of area, that must have consequences. It makes infrastructure more expensive and increases distances. Do the roads in your neighborhood have walkways? How m…

The funny thing is that monthly living expenses (mortage + taxes) are less than our tiny apartment in NYC. Schools are great, which is why we moved, and cheap in context (compare $16k/yr in taxes to $36k+/yr for a 6yo in NYC private school).

Roads do have more potholes than I'd like, indeed expensive to fix/maintain. We do have walkways (this is not Atlanta/Midwest). One middle school, one high school, colleges are elsewhere (ie plenty). Loads of community/sports stuff (too much). Shopping nearby, but some requires a car (you get used to it). Note: it's actually a myth that the burbs have bad food (at least in relatively wealthy towns on the East Coast). Better than anything offered in my old home town in Holland (I do miss my 'patatje oorlog'). Obviously happy as a clam here. Don't think I could ever get used to living right next to my neighbors again ('rijtjeshuis')

Totally agree with you on the perception of risk. It's a shame. It wasn't always like that. I blame cell phones and helicopter parents.

PS I don't miss biking 10km in my rain suit (regenpak) Gezamenlijk afzien? ;-)

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#296

Post by jimbobimbo »

Author compares apples and oranges though. The closes thing to a planned communities ("hellholes" as people refer them to in this thread) are so called "sleeper districts" in ex-USSR. Outskirts of towns, full of multi-storied apartment buildings, all looking the same, with a large "univermag" (supermarket) somewhere in the middle.

I used to live in Greater New York area and it's full of little towns like Union, Springfield, Millburn that look and feel very close to the European towns the author likes that much. Even Short Hills - the "sleeper district" of the affluent East coast - looks amazingly good, and it's strictly residential.

The deeper South you go, the more planned neighborhoods are there. But saying that "all US is like that" is a stretch.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#297

Post by abalashov »

jimbobimbo wrote: post #296

Author compares apples and oranges though. The closes thing to a planned communities ("hellholes" as people refer them to in this thread) are so called "sleeper districts" in ex-USSR. Outskirts of towns, full of multi-storied apartment buildings, all looking the same, with a large "univermag" (supermarket) somewhere in the middle. I used to live in Greater New York area and it's full of little towns like Union, Sprin…

And yet, one did not need a driving licence to leave a "sleeper district", nor were their streets (save for main arteries) built out as pedestrian-hostile highways, and teenagers as well as adults had the same means to access the rest of the city.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#298

Post by jimbobimbo »

abalashov wrote: post #297
jimbobimbo wrote: post #296

Author compares apples and oranges though. The closes thing to a planned communities ("hellholes" as people refer them to in this thread) are so called "sleeper districts" in ex-USSR. Outskirts of towns, full of multi-storied apartment buildings, all looking the same, with a large "univermag" (supermarket) somewhere in the middle. I used to live in Greater New York area and it's full of little towns like Union, Sprin…

And yet, one did not need a driving licence to leave a "sleeper district", nor were their streets (save for main arteries) built out as pedestrian-hostile highways, and teenagers as well as adults had the same means to access the rest of the city.

So, essentially, it's just easier to get in and out of the hellhole.
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