Why Suburbia Sucks • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#81

Post by criddell » Sun, May 08, 2016, 8:54 PM UTC

ChicagoDave wrote: post #33

I'd agree about the negative impact of suburbia for completely different reasons. The culture created by it has the nature of a bubble where its occupants don't ever interact with anyone "different". Clothes, jobs, mannerisms, jokes, religions, activities, food...are all the same. This dulls people's sense of empathy in a considerable and damaging way. Instead of being able to think critically and with empathy, subur…

> We need to break these bubbles, redraw our towns and cities with integrated services, focused on walking, biking, and as little driving internally as possible. You car for should be intra-city travel.

How about you live the way you want to live and let me live how I want to live?

I choose living in the suburbs because that's where I'm happiest right now. When I was younger, I loved the energy and action of the city. In my mid-40's, I love the peace and community of my suburb although I suspect once self-driving cars are within reach, I'm going to move even further away from the city.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#82

Post by TulliusCicero » Sun, May 08, 2016, 8:54 PM UTC

jayess wrote: post #72

TulliusCicero wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they detest what suburbs are in the US. Which, besides all the problems mentioned in the article, are often funded via a Ponzi scheme of development: http://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/

Your completely un-sourced article has nothing to do with the OP article, which detests the option of people living in suburbs. Do suburbs pay for themselves? Maybe, maybe not. But you can't also then turn around and argue for cities that have massively subsidized transit systems that themselves, despite the massive subsidies, are breaking down and crappy.

> Your completely un-sourced article has nothing to do with the OP article

Yes, you noticed that I was addressing something in your comment rather than the OP, good job on noticing the obvious.

> which detests the option of people living in suburbs.

He does not, in fact, detest the option of people living in suburbs. He detests American suburban design. I'm sure he would love to live in a more European-style suburb, but in most of America (and especially somewhere like Atlanta) they don't even exist.

> But you can't also then turn around and argue for cities that have massively subsidized transit systems that themselves, despite the massive subsidies, are breaking down and crappy.

Wow, way to completely misunderstand both transit and sprawly American suburbs. Here, let me explain it to you:

Transit is subsidized, yes. So are roads built for cars, so are sidewalks and bike lanes. Every form of transport is paid for by taxes.

Property taxes are ostensibly designed to support the extra services and infrastructure that more people and businesses require. If the replacement cost of infrastructure for a new suburban development is greater than the amount of tax revenue those suburbs bring in, when it comes time to replace that stuff, the city will go into the red. Meaning, either it draws the revenue from somewhere else, likely the more economically productive urban core (or even more development, furthering the problem), or it goes bankrupt. That's not good!

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#83

Post by matwood » Sun, May 08, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

humbleMouse wrote: post #70

I am surprised to see all of the pro-suburbia comments here. I enjoyed this article and found it lines up with many of my criticisms of suburbia. The suburbs to me are a soul sucking place that gives me the heebie-jeebies. With that said, my opinion reflects my experience living in Minneapolis. When I visit other cities like Seattle or San Francisco, I am turned off by the ridiculous density and the inability to go t…

I think what you are seeing is that not all suburbs are created equal. I grew up in the burbs and live in the burbs now. Nothing in the article matches up to my experience. I am also on the coast in a smaller city so it is hard to have explicit city and explicit burb.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#84

Post by bklimt » Sun, May 08, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #40

As someone who grew up in Europe, I've been to visit friends and relatives in the US quite often. Quite often I think what this guy writes. Between the two coasts, there is a homogeneity of architecture that is quite amazing for a European to watch. In Europe, it's quite noticeable where you are, and everywhere has enough character that you can remember it. In the US, stuff looks like SimCity. I often ask, how did yo…

Chains like Starbucks and McDonald's are popular for a reason. They make products people like. They have optimized for scale and cost. They provide consistent product and service, especially when traveling.

In the medium-sized town where I grew up, we always loved it when a new chain restaurant opened up in our town. They made us feel like we got the same options as the big cities.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#85

Post by humbleMouse » Sun, May 08, 2016, 8:59 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #83

humbleMouse wrote: post #70

I am surprised to see all of the pro-suburbia comments here. I enjoyed this article and found it lines up with many of my criticisms of suburbia. The suburbs to me are a soul sucking place that gives me the heebie-jeebies. With that said, my opinion reflects my experience living in Minneapolis. When I visit other cities like Seattle or San Francisco, I am turned off by the ridiculous density and the inability to go t…

I think what you are seeing is that not all suburbs are created equal. I grew up in the burbs and live in the burbs now. Nothing in the article matches up to my experience. I am also on the coast in a smaller city so it is hard to have explicit city and explicit burb.

That is definitely what I am saying. Minneapolis is an interesting place because rent/home prices are actually more in the suburbs than in the cool parts of the city. Furthermore, our highways are structured basically so that there are rings of highways that circle around the city. You can drive for miles on these highways and it is nothing but flat open land with cookie cutter houses and the same shops and strip malls.

We do have some big lakes and I can understand why some people like living on lakefront property with boats and whatnot. However, real estate is so cheap in Minneapolis that it boggles my mind more big companies don't open up shop in the city. Hopefully this is something that will change as time goes on and more people move here.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#86

Post by matwood » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:00 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #80

TulliusCicero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools. You seem to be confused. The article is saying that American suburbs are particularly poorly designed, not that suburbs as a general rule are terrible. Here is Gröbenzell, a suburb just west of Munich that's surrounded by farmland: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%B6benzell,…

I believe it is the fault of bureaucrats over-zoning. I would love to have a pub and a market next to every neighborhood. I love the idea of the Post Office providing basic financial services such as checking and money transfers. Let's make it as easy as possible to have peaceful neighborhoods AND retail/business in the same area. Dangerous or loud industrial businesses still need away from residence, but other than…

This is exactly the kind of neighborhood (suburb?) I live in. I can walk/drive/bicycle to the nearby grocery/pub/cleaners. The city is ~1/2 hour drive though.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#87

Post by bklimt » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:00 PM UTC

hasenj wrote: post #51

One thing I can't fathom about cities in North America is this sharp division between residential areas and shopping areas. I'm by no means a world expert, but the places I've been to (Middle East where I grew up, Japan which I visited a couple of times) don't have this sharp distinction. Sure, there are residential areas and there are shopping areas, but every residential area will have many small shops here and the…

In every suburb I've lived in, whether in Austin or Pittsburgh or San Jose, there has been a grocery store within walking distance.

I have lived in smaller cities where that's not the case, but not in the suburbs.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#88

Post by mruniverse » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:01 PM UTC

It seems like people like Suburbia. A lot of people buy houses and live in Suburbia. Something seems to be right about it.

Maybe we should look at is popularity before saying it sucks. Try to figure out why it's popular. What is going on there? That would be an interesting read.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#89

Post by TulliusCicero » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:01 PM UTC

mattdeboard wrote: post #11

Having lived & worked quite a long time in wildly different metro areas -- Santa Clara/Mountain View, Indianapolis, Austin -- this article raises more questions for me more than anything. What is a suburb, by the author's definition? It seems like it's an area outside the urban core of a city, I guess. But here in Austin, I'm buying a house away from the urban core of downtown, in a subdivision, but it's in a largely…

He's attacking American-style, super-sprawly suburbs, not suburbs in general.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#90

Post by slr555 » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:02 PM UTC

Perhaps Mr. Balashov is thinking of the great urban centers of Europe like Moscow. Where it can take 2.5 hours to go 20 blocks and where the mass transit system embraces multi-culturalism and internationalism by only having signs in Cyrillic.

I am sorry that Mr. Balashov has chosen to live in Atlanta, but I suspect he has little knowledge of Omaha. Growing up in such a place is quite idyllic. The creeks, the parks, the forest and the fields encourage children to play sports, have pets, picnic and stare up at the sky from amidst fields of boundless green listening to the sound of insects and birds instead of sirens.

As Oscar Wilde said, "For heaven's sake, don't try to be cynical. It's perfectly easy to be cynical." It is easy to be cynical about suburbs and wax poetic about cities. Well I grew up in Kansas and have lived for 25 years in NYC (Manhattan). Also known as the capital of the world.

I've been to Paris, Moscow, London, Dubai, Cairo, Buenos Aires, Brussels, Prague, Budapest, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich, etc. And guess what I still love Kansas and Nebraska.

Loathing suburbia is snobbery and a failure of imagination.

My favorite Tarkovsky film is Nostalghia. The title refers to a very specific feeling that Russians experience when the miss their homeland.