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Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

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Re: Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

#141

Wow. I remember watching these stats, waiting for Firefox to edge past IE in the 2000s. Chrome really took the ball and ran with it. They had the advantage of seeing things that FF did that really worked (tabs, extensions, find-as-you-type) and the intelligence to iterate on that (multi-process support, a world-class debugger) and a really solid foundation in WebKit (née KHTML). In a way Chrome was in the right place…

Chrome had the advantage of being pushed by the largest internet company in the world, with one of the most widely used operating systems in the world. Firefox chased after the look of Chrome after being shocked by its sudden rise, and successfully made itself indistinguishable from it.

Compelling things about Firefox that are wasted:

1) It's operated by a non-profit which lacks an ulterior motive.

2) It isn't inherently privacy-destroying.

3) The vast number of extensions.

Instead of depending on these things, they sneakily put in opt-out features that do destroy privacy and generate revenue, hide the ways to opt-out, and act shocked when you question their motives. They constantly break extensions. They unintentionally highlight that they share the thing that bothers people the most about applications in general: they arbitrarily change UI, something about your workflow is as likely as not to break on every update, and you will spend hours trying to get it to work the way it used to work.

There's no reason for them to do this other than some Silicon Valley mindset - it's in the culture, not in the mission. It's as if the Salvation Army kept moving the front door. Worse, it's as if the Salvation Army kept moving the front door because they saw Wal-Mart moving the front door.

Firefox should be saying: "We're the safe as milk, simple, straightforward browser that prioritizes privacy and public service, and is infinitely flexible in order to prioritize our user's individual needs." Instead, they're like: "We're an off-brand Chrome. We'll make a phone and an OS, too, just a little crappier. You have no idea where our money is coming from, but our drive to expand beyond what we once did well should make you suspicious. Also, we're removing that button on the next update."

Re: Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

#142

Wow. I remember watching these stats, waiting for Firefox to edge past IE in the 2000s. Chrome really took the ball and ran with it. They had the advantage of seeing things that FF did that really worked (tabs, extensions, find-as-you-type) and the intelligence to iterate on that (multi-process support, a world-class debugger) and a really solid foundation in WebKit (née KHTML). In a way Chrome was in the right place…

They had the added advantage of being physically located near Mozilla's Mountain View HQ and being able to recruit engineers working on Firefox (granted, many Mozilla engineers are remote, but their recruitment of FF engineers shouldn't be forgotten)

Re: Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

#143
post #140
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox became faster than Chrome quite a while ago already. Not sure what you were measuring.

I have a policy of keeping personal browsing on chrome and work based browsing on FF. Every now and then FF will inexplicably hang for over 5 seconds on a page that is probably already cached. I never notice this on chrome, and my connection speed is over 100MBps.. Other times, FF is lightning quick - near instantaneous loads - only other thing I can think of is that I'm running FF on Fedora?

On Linux until full Wayland switch will happen, performance won't be optimal.

See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1038800

Re: Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is knowingly paying for it.

So does Intel and many other "trusted" vendors, we all know about the power of default values. As I said, people shouldn't be upset at Google, installing Chrome was a significant improvement, or would you rather see IE8 still as the dominant browser? I blame Adobe, Oracle, etc. because they have the trust of the users and a piece of software considered essential by many people, yet they decide to use the shady practi…

Of course you should be blaming Google. They are a willing participant in deceptive bundleware. And it is specifically included in the download for Adobe Flash for Firefox/Opera Classic (aka, not IE's Flash which is different), so it is setup to steal users away from competitors. At least the last time I checked, and as demonstrated in my screenshot above.

Re: Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does Intel and many other "trusted" vendors, we all know about the power of default values. As I said, people shouldn't be upset at Google, installing Chrome was a significant improvement, or would you rather see IE8 still as the dominant browser? I blame Adobe, Oracle, etc. because they have the trust of the users and a piece of software considered essential by many people, yet they decide to use the shady practi…

Of course you should be blaming Google. They are a willing participant in deceptive bundleware. And it is specifically included in the download for Adobe Flash for Firefox/Opera Classic (aka, not IE's Flash which is different), so it is setup to steal users away from competitors. At least the last time I checked, and as demonstrated in my screenshot above.

You talk as if you knew the terms of their deal and corroborated that Google asked to target every browser, in my experience these kind of deals are offered as "all-or-nothing", so having Firefox or Opera targeted were a side effect.

EDIT: I checked it right now, and it also targets IE, unlike what you suggest: http://i.imgur.com/XuwHs7G.png

Re: Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is knowingly paying for it.

So does Intel and many other "trusted" vendors, we all know about the power of default values. As I said, people shouldn't be upset at Google, installing Chrome was a significant improvement, or would you rather see IE8 still as the dominant browser? I blame Adobe, Oracle, etc. because they have the trust of the users and a piece of software considered essential by many people, yet they decide to use the shady practi…

> installing Chrome was a significant improvement

Is it? Across the board they are entitled to make that decision for every user?

it is absolutely as bad as any of the crapware vendors who do this. Google is just as bad as the ask toolbar people.

Re: Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Chrome is the current 800lbs gorilla, and they continue to grow. I am still operating under a browser wars mentality where Netscape/Mozilla's marketshare completely collapsed and they slowly recovered over time. I'm just impressed that Firefox is in double digits in terms of marketshare given that they don't have a huge marketing engine driving them (Okay, I guess Yahoo is pretty decent as engines go.) I remembe…

> Largely hitting pause on FirefoxOS and Thunderbird and everything else not Firefox is also the right, if painful, thing to do. Unfortunately, that's not what they are doing. They are going full throttle on the nebulous "IoT" on an equal footing with Firefox (VP & all). Mozilla seems to have abandoned it's mission statement: email is still an important part of the internet and it is far from solved. Yet they killed…

The people count under the IoT VP (the group is actually called "Connected Devices") is about 70 people, ie. 7% of Mozilla Corp. You can not compare that with the 200+ people that were working on Firefox OS, and you can absolutely not compare that with the resources allocated to the core engine (gecko) and Firefox Desktop - I don't have the exact the numbers, but it's obviously most of the org.

About "Mozilla could be more"... sure, but more of what?

Re: Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

#148
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chrome really took the ball and ran with it I'm still kind of bitter with the way they did that. A lot of windows installers, which usually installed you toolbars if you forgot to uncheck a box, started installing chrome as your default browser if you forgot to uncheck a box. I've seen a lot of non-technical people using chrome who have no idea what chrome is or remembering giving consent to installing chrome.

Chrome also had the advantage of being advertised on Google.com.

> Chrome also had the advantage of being advertised on Google.com.

The most valuable advertising space in the world?

Re: Firefox tops Microsoft browser market share for first time

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does Intel and many other "trusted" vendors, we all know about the power of default values. As I said, people shouldn't be upset at Google, installing Chrome was a significant improvement, or would you rather see IE8 still as the dominant browser? I blame Adobe, Oracle, etc. because they have the trust of the users and a piece of software considered essential by many people, yet they decide to use the shady practi…

> installing Chrome was a significant improvement Is it? Across the board they are entitled to make that decision for every user? it is absolutely as bad as any of the crapware vendors who do this. Google is just as bad as the ask toolbar people.

> Is it?

If you suggest the opposite, you don't do web development or live in the early 2000's.

> Across the board they are entitled to make that decision for every user?

Saying "every" is an exaggeration, since several users would opt-out. Installing a better (yes, better) browser to technically-impaired people who don't even know what a browser is looks like a good trade off to me.

> it is absolutely as bad as any of the crapware vendors who do this. Google is just as bad as the ask toolbar people.

Ask is a dying company doing questionable last ditch efforts. Google is a healthy company deliberately tweaking tech-impaired user's defaults, there is a difference whether you like it or not.

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