Live data from Hacker News

Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

experimental-geography.blogspot.com

121–130 of 155 posts

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#121
post #79

Obligatory reminder: If you care about housing in the Bay Area, register to vote now. Scott Wiener is a housing and transportation advocate running for State Senate in this election. http://registertovote.ca.gov/ Show up to Planning Commission and Board of Supervisor meetings. Participate in public comment. We all talk about how NIMBYs rule SF, it's because they show up in full force at these gatherings.

Gentrification step 13: vote out the pre-existing population's preferred politicians and install new "free market" policies (since the "free market" works in favor of the people with the money the new policies will benefit the richer new comers).

What's wrong with gentrification?

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#122
post #108
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely red tape. I'm doing an expansion on my house in SF. 1 year in already, and at least another year to go before we get permits, if we even wind up getting them. It will probably cost over $10,000 just in planning review / permitting costs when it's all done. That does not include the added time architectural costs of changing the plans as demanded by the various planning departments.

By way of comparison, out here on the East Coast, I went by my county office on a Friday, talked over what I wanted to do with the clerk, sketched out a basic plan on a blank sheet of paper, paid $75 in fees, taped the permit to my front window and started work on an expansion the next day.

Yes, SF's process is incredibly broken. It's not just that they are too expensive and time consuming (which they are!), it's also that the rules are arbitrary, and there are multiple departments, which often have the exact opposite requirements.

Additionally, any approval can be appealed by neighbors for any reason, at very little cost, but then the person applying for the permit will then have to spend thousands more, and potentially years more, to fight the appeal.

The uncertainty and lack of clear rules is actually worse than the cost (which is ridiculous).

I find it hard to imagine a more dysfunctional planning process.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#123
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking the same thing. Is it physical limitations of building (such as earthquake proofing) that makes it difficult? Or is it the suffocating amount of bureaucratic red tape imposed by short-sighted interest groups?

> Is it physical limitations of building (such as earthquake proofing) that makes it difficult? Can't be worse than in Japan. They manage to build plenty. So, definitely red tape.

Yup if Tokyo can build safely skyscrapers on landfills (look at the Ariake area in the Tokyo bay -- an area that is friendly for young families btw), then there is no structural reason why SF can't.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#124
Supply and demand.

Demand is higher than supply.

Everyone in SF knows that and actually seems to not want to increase the supply.

Strike that, they want the property tax revenue but only from huge, high-brow luxury apartment build-outs. The City has no problem letting the supply at the high end of the market increase.

By stopping any growth in the supply of nominally affordable rentals, the City leadership is pushing people of limited means outside of the city.

Let's see then if the City's limitations to increasing Supply makes sense:

1) low-income people -- like it or not, the vast majority of crime is committed by this group -- are pushed out of the city. That reduces crime. Check, makes sense from the City leadership perspective.

2) Rent control fools the city's renters into voting for more of the same. Landlords cannot profit; take affordable units off the market. Again, the low income types are pushed out of the city. Check. (see #1)

3) Also, by putting these mom-and-pop landlords out of business, rent control eliminates a COMPETITOR for the Luxury Apartment developers -- if there are no low-cost apartments to rent, people have no choice but to pay up or get out. Rent control also pushes up rents at the low end as those units go offline/out of business/converted to condos/etc., leaving fewer units available for low income folks.

The City is acting in its own best interest to:

- limit supply growth of apartments - put mom and pop landlords with affordable units offline - thus eliminating affordable units and the low socio-economic status people who create most of the crime problems from the city

And all that pushes up rents to benefit high-property-tax-paying Luxury apartment developers.

The City needs as much property tax revenue as they can get.

"How do we attract luxury apartment developers to boost the City's property tax haul?

- eliminate the low-priced competitors -- and even get the voters to approve it -- by imposing rent control

- reduce crime so Luxury apartment developers will feel they can attract high-dollar customers

- reduce/eliminate the creation of new affordable housing

SF wants property tax revenue. If you understand the above, you know everything.

It's not like the City leaders are going to announce their strategy to voters. Too many low-income/moderate-income renters here in SF.

But you can see the effects: - high rents due to the gradual elimination of mom-and-pop low rent units (they go out of business or convert to condos) - no more low-end Supply allowed to be created - rent control is here to stay (at least until all the low-priced apartments are gone)

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#126
post #109
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i acknowledge that city ordinances can be a huge headache, but consider that trees serve more than just aesthetic purpose. They provide shade, filter particulate matter, and increase air quality for a much larger area than just 'your own property'. This is especially important in the urban core of cities where greenery can be scarce, and mature trees even more so.

The right way to do it is not by restricting cutting down trees, but by encouraging planting more. I bet a $100/year property tax deduction per tree would have the city absolutely packed full of every kind of tree you can imagine.

Old, large trees are not easily replaced. A 100 year tree is not the same as 3 or 4 trees that were just planted.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#127
post #113
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> New York City's population density is 56% higher than San Francisco's And even New York City is not really that dense: San Francisco: 18 000 people per mi2 New York City: 27 000 Barcelona: 41 000 Paris: 55 000 Only Manhattan (72 000 per mi2) is dense.

Or look at Hong Kong and Singapore.

That's twice you've said that, care to elaborate?

Hong Kong 6,544/km2 17,024/sq mi

Singapore: 7,697/km2 19,910/sq mi

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#128
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or look at Hong Kong and Singapore.

That's twice you've said that, care to elaborate? Hong Kong 6,544/km2 17,024/sq mi Singapore: 7,697/km2 19,910/sq mi

Hong Kong is 75% rural montane forests. The city density is closer to 80000/mi^2.

An unsurprising choice, since for a century residents were surrounded by a much poorer, much more dangerous country, and the ocean, in all directions. The only place you can go in Hong Kong to escape are its parks.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#129
post #106
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boosting housing by building vertically is virtually unlimited. The trickier part is supplying the added people with water, electricity, gas, food, and other supplies without augmenting infrastructure (which is failing left and right as it is) and convincing them to never travel out of or into the city using its already-at-capacity freeways and rail.

For the last part, having mixed-zone development is essential. Put housing above supermarkets! Offices inside apartment complexes! Make it easy for people to walk around. I think that people don't need convincing not to use their cars... it's more that the space needs to be built in a way to where cars are not necessary.

Like Tokyo?

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#130

Using a logarithmic scale seems kinda silly. It really detracts from my innate visual ability to understand the topic.

Inflation is exponential. It removes all the contrast in the the historical data, and trends are more difficult to spot if a linear scale is used on exponential data.
Post reply on HN