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Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#311

Post by worldsayshi »

Mz wrote: post #174

So, I am female. When working at a Fortune 500 company, I once emailed a colleague and copied our two bosses. I advised him to never speak that way to me again. It went to HR. I got interviewed. I assume he got interviewed. He was not fired. He never spoke that way to me again. I eventually reestablished trust with this man and we got on well. I suspect he got sensitivity training. I was not told what went down. It w…

Thank you! People need to be allowed to make mistakes and have a decent chance at improving themselves. For all we know, the person in question might just have arrived from some super sexist workplace where such behaviour is the norm.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#312

Post by traviswingo »

First of all, talk to your lawyer. This is something that should have already been in place and there should be literature to give to each employee during their on-boarding.

Second, if the harassed employee does not wish you to do anything, the best thing to do is to indirectly address the situation with a company-wide seminar/meeting about the topic. List off all the things this employee did that are intolerable - he'll get it really fast.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#313

Post by mturmon »

Grishnakh wrote: post #295
kazinator wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aw man, did you have to reply? :) I was about to delete that. It's a stupid comment, attracting undeserved upvotes.

With a karma score over 6000, I'm surprised you haven't already noticed that this forum is completely and utterly lacking in humor. I'm even more surprised that you claim your humorous post is being up voted, instead of massively downvoted, which is exactly what happens any time I try to make a joke around here. (Your upvotes will probably turn into downvotes soon.) It doesn't surprise me at all that the responder to…

On those days when I want "HN + humor", and they do exist, I simply visit the HN Humor Museum: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5326511

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#314

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #272
harryh wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add on a bit more you are probably right about "b) terminate the offending employee for cause" but before you do that you almost certainly have to give the employee a chance to respond to the accusations. If you just fire him before doing that you are likely opening yourself up to a lawsuit for wrongful termination. Yet again, this is something that a lawyer will help you handle correctly.

Why can't this person simply get fired. No cause. Even if you want to give them the benefit of doubt (which seems extremely unmerited, given the presented evidence) why would you want to employ someone who shows such poor judgement? This is not a college dorm room. This is a professional setting, and while it is natural for romances to take place, this is in very poor taste to say the least, and even if it had been i…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#315

Post by Mz »

traviswingo wrote: post #312

First of all, talk to your lawyer. This is something that should have already been in place and there should be literature to give to each employee during their on-boarding. Second, if the harassed employee does not wish you to do anything, the best thing to do is to indirectly address the situation with a company-wide seminar/meeting about the topic. List off all the things this employee did that are intolerable - h…

This is super bad advice. Clueless people who read company wide memos very often have no idea that "We are talking about YOU, bub." I know, because I used to get those department wide memos and almost always felt like raising my hand and asking "So, um, this thing you are talking about...is...is that something I am doing?? Kthxbai."

(No, this was not about sexual harassment per se.)

Edit: Additionally, if this guy does put two and two together, he may well realize she told on him and this in no way protects her.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#316

Post by xutzvfgf »

patio11 wrote: post #3

Lawyer lawyer lawyer LAWYER lawyer LAWYER . I think the consensus in the grown-up business world is "fire immediately for cause." I would bet substantial money that when you lawyer lawyer lawyer they will advise you to do that and document the heck out of it. The calculus is really, really simple: if you don't, then you will with probability approaching one get this incident or a similar incident cited during a threa…

One of the first things I learned in management training was: "as soon as a manager knows about an incident, the company knows about the incident." You can't promise confidentiality because the company _must_ act on information it has. (If it does not, it opens itself up to later lawsuits for _failing_ to handle discrimination and harassment.)

All of this is to say: patio11 is right.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#317

Post by tempestn »

duskwuff wrote: post #303
joering2 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me, but where was it? Also, Milf can be sexual harassment. Sure. So can be telling someone "you look nice". I worked with someone that was bashed by HR by telling a co-worker "I like your new haircut". I didn't see it as SH. It depends on point of view.

Unless you are in the porn business, describing a coworker as a "MILF" is always sexual harassment. The acronym literally declares an intention to have sexual intercourse; it has no innocent interpretation.

I agree with you, but depending on a person's background, it is likely not always intentional harassment. I've known people who use MILF interchangeably with something like "hot". (Which also would often be inappropriate of course, but presumably wouldn't be considered as crossing the line into harassment as a standalone incident.) Basically there are plenty of people out there who use MILF as an adjective without even considering the literal meaning of the acronym.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#318

Post by rsp1984 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #227
rsp1984 wrote: post #201

I am not a lawyer, but: Apart from the "Milf" comment I don't see much in your description of events that would qualify as sexual harassment (at least not from my European view of things). Certainly unprofessional but not quite sexually harassing. As far as I understand, the transgressions were "only" verbal and there was no other inappropriate behaviour. Here's what I would do: Collect all the facts and evidence abo…

> Apart from the "Milf" comment I don't see much in your description of events that would qualify as sexual harassment Well yes, it might be hard to see the sexual harassment once you've decided to set aside the sexually harassing part.

I don't see a problem in that. I was pointing out that "Milf" would be the only thing in the series of events that could qualify as "sexually harrasing", and the others would not.

That's a legitimate thing to do when trying to be objective in face of making some important decisions. A single qualifying statement is not a very firm basis to make decisions on. That's btw. why I was suggesting collecting all the facts.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#319

Post by tptacek »

logfromblammo wrote: post #280
tptacek wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "wrongful termination" suit are you referring to? Please be as specific as you can.

That's the lawsuit brought by the person who gets fired, which requires the corporate lawyer to submit at least a brief and motion for dismissal, if not an actual answer to the claims. People occasionally do sue their former employers when they believe they have been wronged in some way. If you fire someone for sexual harassment when no such thing occurred, the ex-employee might sue for no other reason than to get a…

If you believe this, it seems like you might also believe that it's legally risky to fire a developer who rm's the production environment. After all, they might bring a frivolous lawsuit for no purpose other than to "get a declaratory judgement asserting the facts of the case".

(Incidentally: I don't think you can just "sue for declaratory judgement" to enlist judges to settle arbitrary disputes; the judgement has to apply to a justiciable controversy. If the employer threatened to sue the accused for damages, for instance.)

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