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Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#201

Post by rsp1984 »

I am not a lawyer, but:

Apart from the "Milf" comment I don't see much in your description of events that would qualify as sexual harassment (at least not from my European view of things). Certainly unprofessional but not quite sexually harassing. As far as I understand, the transgressions were "only" verbal and there was no other inappropriate behaviour.

Here's what I would do: Collect all the facts and evidence about the BD person's inappropriate behaviour. This may involve talking to your employee about this again. Then take some quiet hours in the evening to review all of the facts. If, and only if, you come to the conclusion that the BD person's behaviour clearly qualifies as sexual harassment, get lawyers involved (and probably eventually fire).

If on the other hand you come to the conclusion that the comments were inappropriate but not sexually harassing, have a private and very serious and straight talk with your BD person about the events and that there is 0 tolerance for that behaviour, then move on. And of course fire the guy immediately if it ever happens again.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#202

Post by Loughla »

everly wrote: post #84

It's baffling/hilarious/concerning to me that there are multiple commenters saying they're not able to see the harassment and asking for clarification.

My favorite is the 'but what if she was leading him on?" defense. Because let's just point at the victim, they surely wanted it.

God bless the internet. Never disappointing in how predictable it is.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#203

Post by dimino »

x5n1 wrote: post #54
scott_s wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She did refuse a romantic involvement by stating up front that she was okay spending time outside of work as friends . That interaction is okay. But he kept going. It's the "kept going" that is sexual harassment.

Yeah I don't know how the whole thing progressed. But it's a fine line and I guess he crossed it.

No, it's not a fine line, it's a thick line that's visible miles away.

You don't tell people you want to fuck them at work.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#204

Post by Loughla »

rsp1984 wrote: post #201

I am not a lawyer, but: Apart from the "Milf" comment I don't see much in your description of events that would qualify as sexual harassment (at least not from my European view of things). Certainly unprofessional but not quite sexually harassing. As far as I understand, the transgressions were "only" verbal and there was no other inappropriate behaviour. Here's what I would do: Collect all the facts and evidence abo…

This is the correct answer to the questions posted. Collect facts, review evidence, have the conversation or fire.

Then follow up with female employee to inform her that he has been appropriately dealt with, and to inform you of any further transgressions.

AND FUCKING DOCUMENT EVERYTHING

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#205

Post by pestaa »

anjc wrote: post #184

I'm baffled by this thread. Yes it might not be appropriate and yes it might necessitate action, but fire him immediately when the "milf" handled it, ended it, and the situation was finished? He didn't push it further than his perception of her comfort level. Furthermore, the term "MILF" has transcended its literal meaning. It doesn't, at this stage in time, literally mean "I want to fuck you". It's a normal Pop Cult…

It's an acronym. It can't transcend its literal meaning.

The amount of convenient and false assumptions you made in your post is indeed baffling.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#206

Post by the_fury »

datalist wrote: post #176
masklinn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking somebody out isn't sexual harassment. Insisting and making crude work-inappropriate remarks is harassment, and that's not just in the US: [76/207/EEC] Article 2 § 2 > harassment: where an unwanted conduct related to the sex of a person occurs with the purpose or effect of violating the dignity of a person, and of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment > sexual harass…

Though were "crude work-inappropriate remarks" the case here? We here know too little to really make educated statements.

I'm having trouble thinking of a situation in which calling someone a milf would be anything but a "crude work-inappropriate remark".

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#207

Post by nobody_nowhere »

anjc wrote: post #184

I'm baffled by this thread. Yes it might not be appropriate and yes it might necessitate action, but fire him immediately when the "milf" handled it, ended it, and the situation was finished? He didn't push it further than his perception of her comfort level. Furthermore, the term "MILF" has transcended its literal meaning. It doesn't, at this stage in time, literally mean "I want to fuck you". It's a normal Pop Cult…

Picture yourself, as an owner of the company, explaining to a jury how "Mother I'd Like to Fuck" doesn't constitute a hostile environment in the course of a sexual harassment lawsuit. Maybe with a jury that includes someone your grandmother's age. And maybe not as a result of this particular conversation, but the next time it happens.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#208

Post by collyw »

jbob2000 wrote: post #25
kbart wrote: post #8

I'm not familiar with US customs, so little confused here: is asking your co-worker out is considered a sexual harassment? Or is it the "milf" part?

It's generally uncouth to ask out a coworker, especially at a small company. Incredibly unprofessional to do it within the first few days of joining. The milf part is the icing on the cake.

A quick Google around shows that 38% of people have dated a co-worker, so it seems unusual to call it uncouth.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#209

Post by anjc »

Loughla wrote: post #196
anjc wrote: post #184

I'm baffled by this thread. Yes it might not be appropriate and yes it might necessitate action, but fire him immediately when the "milf" handled it, ended it, and the situation was finished? He didn't push it further than his perception of her comfort level. Furthermore, the term "MILF" has transcended its literal meaning. It doesn't, at this stage in time, literally mean "I want to fuck you". It's a normal Pop Cult…

It absolutely is an aggressive, invasive term. It literally means he wants to fuck her. "Mom I Want to Fuck". That's the thing it means. And his 'i have a secret' junior high bullshit sort of cements that as his view. Your perception of my comfort level means nothing. Maybe you shouldn't be in a situation where you have to worry about my comfort level? >I can only guess that this occurred in the US; you all make it s…

Did you not read my post? It does not literally mean "I want to fuck you". You'd have to be pretty dense to think it is a literal come on or proposal. It's a mainstream pop culture term. Turn on any random X-Factor type show for 3 minutes and you'll hear Sharon Osbourne or someone use it.

> So sexual harassment is only a US thing?

If this occurred as OP described, I don't see how it can be construed as sexual harassment. He ended contact upon her making it clear that it was unwanted, so by the very definition of "harassment" he didn't harass her.

Again, I'm not saying that it was appropriate or that it doesn't warrant action, but I'm flabbergasted that people are suggesting he be fired.

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