Why Suburbia Sucks • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#141

Post by criddell » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:53 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #62

increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

> Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools. You seem to be confused. The article is saying that American suburbs are particularly poorly designed, not that suburbs as a general rule are terrible. Here is Gröbenzell, a suburb just west of Munich that's surrounded by farmland: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%B6benzell,…

> There in Germany, Gröbenzell actually has a population density 30% higher than Seattle

Population density doesn't always tell the whole story. Portland, OR has a lower population density than Beaverton (one of the surrounding cities that is basically a suburb).

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#142

Post by kuschku » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

ptaipale wrote: post #42

germanier wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in many parts of the US. Here in Germany I see plenty of children roaming around in the city every day.

However, the culture of helicoptering kids everywhere (and hovering nearby, trying to control and risk-manage everything) is spreading to Europe more and more.

Sadly. This is one of the negative effects of having mostly-foreign entertainment media, and I’d hope that the effect could be countered soon.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#143

Post by abalashov » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

themgt wrote: post #69

55555 wrote: post #23

Unless this is the speaker of a very similar TED Talk, this guy borrowed tons of soundbites in the process of writing this article. Edit: just finished reading it. He has plagarized 10+ 'jokes', and most of his content was heavily 'inspired', from this excellent TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/james_howard_kunstler_dissects_sub... . Very very uncool.

Agreed, I noticed that too. I was hoping he'd just subconsciously lifted some phrases, but the amount of the overall similar content/structure and the specificity of phrases do really kinda push it to the level of plagiarism.

Hi, author here!

I am very familiar with Kunstler's talk and do cite it from time to time, but it's hard for me to see the basis for the notion that I ripped it off. Kunstler is hardly the only one to make New Urbanist architectural talking points or to formulate them in the way that he does, notwithstanding his rather specific sense of humour.

That said, I just rewatched Kunstler's talk (for the first time in maybe a year or two?), and I can certainly see why you say what you do, though I don't agree that it rises to the level of plagiarism; I sat there and made my formulations quite originally. It's probably a case of subconscious diffusion, as you suggest. I added a citation for his talk to the bottom of the post to reflect the discernible overlap.

That said, you really need to look at some other critical literature in this sphere. If you do, you might be led to accuse Kunstler of plagiarism! :-)

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#144

Post by pyre » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #107

55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools This all used to be easily achievable in urban neighborhoods. The elephant in the room people don't want to acknowledge is that suburbia has mostly been a way to flee from and exclude social decay. This is why people freak out about public transit to a lot of neighborhoods. The requirement of multiple car ownership in an area is a deliberately con…

> The elephant in the room people don't want to acknowledge is that suburbia has mostly been a way to flee from and exclude social decay. This is why I bought in a socially conservative neighborhood: people implicitly police one another into basic civic decency, and I'd much rather suffer an occasional scolding from a few overzealous busybodies than bear the burden of intergenerational poverty and crime. Sure, I may…

> I'm happy to give up grime, drug trafficking, and violence for an internet tongue lashing.

This statement assumes that if you did not make the choice that you have you would be assured to have these things happening right outside your door.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#145

Post by criddell » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:56 PM UTC

gaur wrote: post #100

increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

> I hope they can safely reach the age where they can go off and experience the adventure of the big cities Conversely, I feel grateful that my parents chose to raise me in a dense urban area, instead of moving out to some suburban hellhole in an attempt to give me a bubble-wrapped existence. I mostly took care of my own transportation to and from public school from the age of 10 onward (walking or public transit), a…

If you let a ten year old use transit themselves today, there's a decent chance parents will get a visit from the police. I think it's ridiculous, but that's how it seems to be.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#146

Post by coned88 » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:56 PM UTC

To me as somebody who was raised in NYC and still lives there. American suburbia is just lovely.

I find nyc dead boring and claustrophobic. Yes there nice restaurants in the city but how many times do you want to eat out? How many shows or do you go to? How many of this and that.

That's the conclusion for me. Sure there are restaurants I'd like to visit. I can commute to go eat once. I don't need to live there and once I have eaten at all the good places (which takes a few weeks at most) you're done.

I'd hate for the suburbs to be undone. NYC is really not a pleasant place to live. So many lunatics walking around and people have no concept of space.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#147

Post by cowsandmilk » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:58 PM UTC

manachar wrote: post #32

Suburbia, with all their HOAs and such are the physical manifestation of the cultural preferences of a large majority of Americans. The following quote perfect illustrates the goals: "The idea, of course, is that the peaceful slumber of the suburbanite should not be interrupted by the noise generated by the transaction of commerce or any other public-sphere human activities" Most Americans want to have an estate wher…

> Suburbia, with all their HOAs and such are the physical manifestation of the cultural preferences of a large majority of Americans.

My numbers put the number of Americans in HOAs in the suburbs at ~16%. Suburbs without HOAs ~37%. So, a small majority of Americans live in suburbs and a much smaller number live in a suburb with an HOA. More Americans live in urban areas (~26%) than in a suburb with an HOA.

As to preferences, my anecdotal experiences have been that I know people who moved to suburbs out of necessity due to cost, but I have never met someone, other than the homeless and those in subsidized housing, living in an urban area due to cost instead of personal choice.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#148

Post by fred_is_fred » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:59 PM UTC

The author of this story, who obviously has no kids, is confused as to why a family of 4 might not want to live in an apartment over a bar in downtown. That's my worst nightmare of life. I'll drive, thanks.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#149

Post by lsc » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:59 PM UTC

mahyarm wrote: post #112

increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

Quiet safe urban areas actually exists in large amounts of Germany, while the only real urban areas that exist in the USA are in SF and NYC. SF & NYC have a sizable homeless population, poop on the streets and similar with large amounts of traffic. Suburban city centers attract the homeless and have a large amount of traffic because everyone has to drive in. German urban areas tend to barely have any road traffic for…

>German urban areas tend to barely have any road traffic for the density since almost nobody owns a car, a quiet train that passes by once in a while and most things closing at 8pm latest.

Everything closes at 8pm? Jesus, I thought that silicon valley was bad, just 'cause it is hard to get a decent meal after 10pm.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#150

Post by ef4 » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:59 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #139

ef4 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have qualified with "#2 cause of accidental death." And as your link shows, "accidental death" is the #1 overall cause of death for children. So it's the #2 category of the #1 category of risk.

Could you point me to that? I still can't find it.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/upload/2013/7/24/FA-5548.pdf

"Safety in Numbers: Are Major Cities the Safest Places in the United States?" by Myers et al, Annals of Emergency Medicine