Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Suburbia Sucks

likewise.am

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 298 posts

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#101

Post by humbleMouse »

Touche wrote: post #98
humbleMouse wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come visit uptown Minneapolis some time. It is a vibrant place with thrift stores, co-ops, and delicious restaurants with fresh food and cheap happy hours. You can rent a studio/1BR for as low as $600. Houses can be had for as low as 100k. I currently rent a 1br with a huge deck and skyline view of Downtown for $900. I can walk to the co-op and coffee shops, don't need a car for anything except getting to my silly su…

In the walkable parts of the city? I'm surprised, when I last visited Minneapolis I stayed at a 1br condo that cost (at least) 400k and was maybe 400 sqft.

Yes, the walkable part. I am guessing you probably were in a condo downtown by the north loop/st. anthony main. There are some pockets where condos go for ridiculous prices, but google "The Wedge Co-op" on google maps and street view your way around the neighborhood. I literally would sell my car if I didn't have a winter commute to the suburbs.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#102

Post by JPKab »

increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

I grew up in two different environments:

A small, late 1800's built, pedestrian friendly town in a rural county, and later after moving to another house, in the countryside in the same county. In both places, there was a lot of economic diversity. Kids who lived in trailers socialized and spent the nights out with kids who lived in old houses, and vice versa.

Something I've noticed about people like you whose entire childhood was spent in the typical suburbs of the USA: You associate these awful places and their awful traits with "safety".

"Safe" streets, "safe" parks, "decent" schools: As a person whose raised my kids in an urban environment, the idea that these weren't available (without driving) in our location is a myth that only burbs raised people buy into.

Two years ago I moved to a part of the country (for a job) that has no urban center nearby. I now live in a subdivision. Never again. The neighbors don't interact with, let alone socialize with each other. The streets are vacant, because nobody walks because why would you walk to nowhere. Vacant streets means kids by themselves have no eyeballs on them, so parents don't feel comfortable letting them explore.

The most evil part of it all is the economic segregation. My kids currently go to school with other upper middle class kids. Nobody lives in trailers in their school, or even apartments. No economic diversity translates to minimal racial diversity. It's terrible.

I'm moving away from here in a few months, and I'll never live in one of these shitholes ever again. You can find nice suburbs that aren't laid out in pedestrian hateful designs like the typical ones you see these days.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#103

Post by cowsandmilk »

mattdeboard wrote: post #11

Having lived & worked quite a long time in wildly different metro areas -- Santa Clara/Mountain View, Indianapolis, Austin -- this article raises more questions for me more than anything. What is a suburb, by the author's definition? It seems like it's an area outside the urban core of a city, I guess. But here in Austin, I'm buying a house away from the urban core of downtown, in a subdivision, but it's in a largely…

> In areas of such inflated housing prices, isn't suburbia supposed to be a pressure valve?

All of his definitions of suburbia apply to Portola Valley, which I would never describe as being a pressure valve on inflated housing prices[1] in South Bay.

[1] https://www.redfin.com/CA/Portola-Valley/16-Santa-Maria-Ave-...

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#104

Post by dmoy »

humbleMouse wrote: post #70

I am surprised to see all of the pro-suburbia comments here. I enjoyed this article and found it lines up with many of my criticisms of suburbia. The suburbs to me are a soul sucking place that gives me the heebie-jeebies. With that said, my opinion reflects my experience living in Minneapolis. When I visit other cities like Seattle or San Francisco, I am turned off by the ridiculous density and the inability to go t…

I went from mpls intercity elementary to suburbia middle school, and the contrast was just staggering. My elementary was like 40%-50% black, and then the rest white or Hmong. Suburb was 95++% white.

I'm white/Asian, and some of MY OWN closer friends would make weird comments like "some people in this group are less white" (implying that my brother and I hadn't yet scrubbed ourselves of our intercity accents). Not maliciously saying things like that, but just completely unaware.

But then I grew up and realized that it's like this all across the country. White flight is a real thing, and it's kinda scary.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#105

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

jacobolus wrote: post #25
CameronBanga wrote: post #20

I'm trying to find words to describe my distain for this article, but I can't think of anything that isn't seen as a direct attack on the author, which isn't my goal. Basically America is bad because we had space for cars when they were invented? There are plenty of places in America where you can get by without a car. I live in "suburbia". A small city of 30,000 in Indiana called Valparaiso. We have a vibrant downto…

According to Wikipedia, Valparaiso Indiana was a regional transportation hub in the mid 19th century. I suspect it has considerably different city plan than more recent “suburbs”. Try comparing an online map satellite view of Valparaiso to some new housing development from >1990, and you’ll observe dramatic differences.

Eh, I doubt it. Around the core -- maybe -- but Valpo (and Merrillville) are bedroom communities for Gary and Chicago. That's WHY there's a commuter train into Chicago. I expect it's brimming with white-dominated, cookie-cutter neighborhoods, exactly as described by the article.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#106

Post by ef4 »

rayiner wrote: post #49
increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

I doubt the suburbs are actually safer. I once did the math. If you add up shooting deaths and driving deaths, the rich suburb where I grew up is about as risky as one of the north side Chicago neighborhoods. And of course upper middle class white teens are going to be at lower than average risk of getting shot in the city, but at higher than average risk of wrapping themselves around a tree in the suburbs. As for sa…

> I doubt the suburbs are actually safer.

You are correct. The average American city dweller now experiences a lower crime rate than in suburbia. (That is an average, obviously some cities are dangerous and some suburbs are very safe.)

> Rich people live in the city

Yes, this is the long-run, natural state of cities. It's why they exist in the first place. They are where economic activity is most concentrated.

American has had a weird 60 years where we inverted that situation, but it is already beginning to revert back to historically normal.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#107

Post by lr4444lr »

55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #46
increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

> where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools This all used to be easily achievable in urban neighborhoods. The elephant in the room people don't want to acknowledge is that suburbia has mostly been a way to flee from and exclude social decay. This is why people freak out about public transit to a lot of neighborhoods. The requirement of multiple car ownership in an area is a deliberately con…

> The elephant in the room people don't want to acknowledge is that suburbia has mostly been a way to flee from and exclude social decay.

This is why I bought in a socially conservative neighborhood: people implicitly police one another into basic civic decency, and I'd much rather suffer an occasional scolding from a few overzealous busybodies than bear the burden of intergenerational poverty and crime. Sure, I may need to drive a bit to find interesting shopping and entertainment options, but at the end of the day if I'm going to make a commitment into an asset as big and un-diversified as a 30 year mortgage, I'd want just about every "negative" the author brings up. And if I'm going to get the fury from HN for saying it, so be it. I'm happy to give up grime, drug trafficking, and violence for an internet tongue lashing.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#108

Post by djrogers »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #67
colmvp wrote: post #30

I've split my life living downtown (SF, NYC, London, Melbourne, TO) and in the suburbs. Outside my house the only thing I hear is the wind tossing about with the trees. Can't hear my neighbors or traffic or people on the street. Contrast that to when I lived in areas where the bars or homeless/mentally unstable individuals would keep me up all night. And I love all the space. Yes, it's a double edge sword. But I have…

It's amazing all the people posting comments here who completely missed the point of the article. The author is NOT saying that suburbs are bad. The author is saying that American suburbs are bad. There is a difference, and that difference is the entire point of the article. Seriously, did you even read it?

Some of us LIKE American suburbs. The author is stating as an objective fact something which is entirely subjective in nature - a sadly common mistake among the overly cynical.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#109

Post by bardworx »

Retric wrote: post #71
fiatmoney wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. Look at the re-conquest of New York City, which follows pretty exactly the pattern you mentioned. "All private schools" isn't even necessary de jure if you can do it de facto via magnet or charter schools and theoretically open neighborhood schools targeted at particular areas.

'Reconquest' of city's has far more components than most people assume. Gay community who mostly don't need good schools. Bad traffic to make suburbs less appealing. Video Games to keep young people entertained and not out damaging the community. Vastly reduced Lead levels to reduce violence. Reduced pollution to make city's livable. etc etc. Even the loss of manufacturing and retail jobs has been a net gain for city…

> Vastly reduced Lead levels to reduce violence

Can you expand on that statement?

Do you imply bullets (as in higher prices and gun control) when you refer to Lead or literally the reduction of the metal Lead in paint, etc.

And how is it linked to violence?

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#110

Post by eropple »

criddell wrote: post #81
ChicagoDave wrote: post #33

I'd agree about the negative impact of suburbia for completely different reasons. The culture created by it has the nature of a bubble where its occupants don't ever interact with anyone "different". Clothes, jobs, mannerisms, jokes, religions, activities, food...are all the same. This dulls people's sense of empathy in a considerable and damaging way. Instead of being able to think critically and with empathy, subur…

> We need to break these bubbles, redraw our towns and cities with integrated services, focused on walking, biking, and as little driving internally as possible. You car for should be intra-city travel. How about you live the way you want to live and let me live how I want to live? I choose living in the suburbs because that's where I'm happiest right now. When I was younger, I loved the energy and action of the city…

> How about you live the way you want to live and let me live how I want to live?

If the price of living where you want to live factored in the significant externalities of it, you might have a point. But suburban and exurban areas in the United States largely don't pay their way with regards to most governmental services (and have a significantly higher ecological footprint, also not accounted for).

Post reply on HN