Why Suburbia Sucks • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#131

Post by thrownaway2424 » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:45 PM UTC

bklimt wrote: post #87

hasenj wrote: post #51

One thing I can't fathom about cities in North America is this sharp division between residential areas and shopping areas. I'm by no means a world expert, but the places I've been to (Middle East where I grew up, Japan which I visited a couple of times) don't have this sharp distinction. Sure, there are residential areas and there are shopping areas, but every residential area will have many small shops here and the…

In every suburb I've lived in, whether in Austin or Pittsburgh or San Jose, there has been a grocery store within walking distance. I have lived in smaller cities where that's not the case, but not in the suburbs.

Seriously? Most late-20th century American subdivisions are built on the scale of a section, which is a mile on each side. Each section typically has a strip-mall type car-centered shopping area with a grocery store at one corner. Due to the fractal layout of the dead-end streets and lack of walking facilities it is generally at least a mile from any of the houses to any of the grocers. And that's for th people who are willing to walk down the side of a giant street-cross-freeway without sidewalks.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#132

Post by vasilipupkin » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:46 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #62

increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

> Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools. You seem to be confused. The article is saying that American suburbs are particularly poorly designed, not that suburbs as a general rule are terrible. Here is Gröbenzell, a suburb just west of Munich that's surrounded by farmland: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%B6benzell,…

Don't forget that US is really big and has lots of different types of suburbs. For example, Chicago has quite a few dense walkable suburbs with easy access to public transport

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#133

Post by ef4 » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:46 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #126

ef4 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. Yes, but people are making their decision based on out-of-date facts. Because in the United States in 2016, mortality risk goes down as population density goes up, and city kids are statistically safer. The #1 killer of children in US is car accidents. Guess who gets in dramatically less car accidents? City kids who don't…

Ummm...guns are nowhere near the #2 killer of children in the US. Where did you even find get a stat like that? I'm looking and can't find anything that even resembles it anywhere. Here are the top 3 by age group: https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001915.htm

I should have qualified with "#2 cause of accidental death."

And as your link shows, "accidental death" is the #1 overall cause of death for children.

So it's the #2 category of the #1 category of risk.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#134

Post by Apocryphon » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:46 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #80

TulliusCicero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools. You seem to be confused. The article is saying that American suburbs are particularly poorly designed, not that suburbs as a general rule are terrible. Here is Gröbenzell, a suburb just west of Munich that's surrounded by farmland: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%B6benzell,…

I believe it is the fault of bureaucrats over-zoning. I would love to have a pub and a market next to every neighborhood. I love the idea of the Post Office providing basic financial services such as checking and money transfers. Let's make it as easy as possible to have peaceful neighborhoods AND retail/business in the same area. Dangerous or loud industrial businesses still need away from residence, but other than…

Amazing, isn't it? In a country where we are told is all about choice and having it our way, we're put in so many situations where we have diametrically opposite and equally unappealing choices, the tyranny of OR, instead of room for compromise.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#135

Post by terda12 » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:47 PM UTC

I agree. I live in suburbia and I feel like I'm slowly choked out of my humanity. Can't wait to move to a damn city or somewhere with more density. America's suburbia was designed for cars and cars only.

Here's an anecdote. My little brother has after school band practice 30 mins drive away. What does he do after school? He can't walk home, so he has to wait for me to pick him up. He can't go out to a movie with his friends because it would involved several parents taking the time out of work to send his friends there, and pick them up. He can't walk home or ride the subway because it's a freaking sprawl of highways. Bus stations are few and far between, and hugely unreliable. Instead all he knows is the highway that connects the school to home, and relies on my driving instead of his own two legs to get him home. I wonder why Americans are obese, hmm.

I watch animes that depict life in Tokyo. There is never a car involved. Kids just walk home after school, walking to a restaurant with their friends if they feel like it, hitting up a local 7-11. They can explore the local park, go to the movie theater, walk home with their friends if its on the same way.

I've stayed in Paris for 2 weeks and could literally walk everywhere. It's amazing how good it feels to see a cool gelato shop in yelp, proceed to take the subway with a bunch of strangers, walk a bit to the gelato shop, buy my gelato, and sit in a nearby coffee shop eating it. And want to check out some comic books? There's a comic book shop around a mile away, let's walk there.

People were not meant to live in suburbia. We are a social creature, we need to belong in a tribe, not a single home separate from the world.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#136

Post by criddell » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #110

criddell wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to break these bubbles, redraw our towns and cities with integrated services, focused on walking, biking, and as little driving internally as possible. You car for should be intra-city travel. How about you live the way you want to live and let me live how I want to live? I choose living in the suburbs because that's where I'm happiest right now. When I was younger, I loved the energy and action of the city…

> How about you live the way you want to live and let me live how I want to live? If the price of living where you want to live factored in the significant externalities of it, you might have a point. But suburban and exurban areas in the United States largely don't pay their way with regards to most governmental services (and have a significantly higher ecological footprint, also not accounted for).

That's not a problem with the suburbs, that's a policy problem. I realize that it costs more per capita to supply infrastructure to us out here and I certainly don't mine paying a premium.

Plus, moving suburbanites into city centers can cause problems too. For example, Austin has been building some very nice condo towers right downtown. These buildings have attracted people that, like me, want peace and quiet. So for the past few years, there's been quite a bit of tension between these new residents and bars and nightclubs that have existed for a long time. The bars have lost some of the fights and the character of downtown is changing.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#137

Post by abalashov » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:49 PM UTC

CameronBanga wrote: post #20

I'm trying to find words to describe my distain for this article, but I can't think of anything that isn't seen as a direct attack on the author, which isn't my goal. Basically America is bad because we had space for cars when they were invented? There are plenty of places in America where you can get by without a car. I live in "suburbia". A small city of 30,000 in Indiana called Valparaiso. We have a vibrant downto…

I can't think of anything that isn't seen as a direct attack on the author

Don't worry, I'm not offended! :-)

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#138

Post by vasilipupkin » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:49 PM UTC

throwawaybookst wrote: post #56

increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

The choice between "dense urban core" and "suburb" is distinctly American. Especially in Europe, city (in the sense of "not suburb or rural" != center of a large (1M+) population. In America, any region with a population the order of 100k or less is basically a shopping area surrounded by suburbs. The same is not true in Europe. In Europe, you can definitely find walkable, breathable, friendly cities while still livi…

I disagree. Typical Chicago suburban area is safer than Europe. If you exclude homicides, most of which happen on the south side of Chicago, Europe has a lot more crime

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#139

Post by brightball » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

ef4 wrote: post #133

brightball wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm...guns are nowhere near the #2 killer of children in the US. Where did you even find get a stat like that? I'm looking and can't find anything that even resembles it anywhere. Here are the top 3 by age group: https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001915.htm

I should have qualified with "#2 cause of accidental death." And as your link shows, "accidental death" is the #1 overall cause of death for children. So it's the #2 category of the #1 category of risk.

Could you point me to that? I still can't find it.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#140

Post by Apocryphon » Sun, May 08, 2016, 9:52 PM UTC

I have to wonder: do any of these pro-suburban commentators live in the Bay Area? And if so, do they live in San Jose, Fremont, or Daly City? Or do they live in San Francisco.