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Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

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Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#101

Post by Retric »

blowski wrote: post #63
Chris2048 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates lowest reported life expectancy, lowest reported crime rate.

Is there reason to believe they are both significantly misreported in Japan, compared to the US and EU? Genuine question as I've never seen otherwise but would be interested in reading about it. ===== I found this article about under reported crime, but couldn't find anything about the life expectancy being wrong. Japan's Police See No Evil (LA Times) http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9

There was apparently significant fraud related to the pension / social security system where people where not reporting people dead for years.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#102

Post by nihonde »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #86
nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

While I want to agree with this sentiment, the problem I see is that Japanese government has largely functioned as a client state of the American empire you're contrasting it with. There was a brief moment of true democratic impulses in the post-occupation period, but this was arguably quashed by the passing of ANPO and the rise to power of the CIA-backed LDP.¹ The peace and stability you prize seems premised on cowi…

I couldn't agree more. It is a strategy of appeasement that is as effective as it is unsustainable. My guess is that Japan will outlast America on the scale of history, but that's pure speculation, and national identities are as fluid as everything else in this world anyway.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#103

Post by Retric »

pja wrote: post #39
adrianN wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw both, men and machines waving glowing sticks. There is also usually a guy who makes sure that no pedestrians are endangered by construction driveways. I'm not sure whether I'd call these jobs "useless" though. Sure, putting up warning signs would probably produce a similar safety level with lower costs, but somehow I feel better cared for if a human does the job.

Often construction entrances need a banksman to help delivery lorries reverse out safely & manage the traffice on the road to make space. That’s not something you can really automate at the moment & in the grand scheme of things not running over unfortunate pedestrians / reversing into things on the road is probably a net economic benefit :) (Which is not to say that a lot of these jobs decribed up-thread aren’t make…

Hooking up a motion sensor to a light bar or some flashing lights and noise makers also works. And is airly common around blind exits in city's.

Alternatively you can send one person out to do that as nessisarily.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#104

Post by alphonsegaston »

facepalm wrote: post #69
nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

Thinking of WWII, Japan's culture was not always on the right track... Coming from Germany, I also wonder how much of the economic success stories of Japan and Germany is really because of cultural aspects, and how much is due to protectionism for example from the US. I think Germany was supported by the US a lot, as a shield against communism. Maybe a similar reasoning was at work in Japan.

You are correct in your intuition. The US used Japan as a forward operating post for both the Korean and Vietnam Wars, and built up their infrastructure to support this. Quite callously, they also exerted pressure on both Korea and Taiwan (former Japanese colonies) to modernize themselves with goods and technology manufactured in Japan.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#105

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

nihonde wrote: post #70
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They've seen first-hand the folly of chasing America and Europe on their imperialist fancies." Interesting view on history.

Well, it was intended as an "aside" comment, but it's still interesting, if controversial. I believe that there is an unbroken thread from the arrival of American ships in Tokyo bay in 1853 to the current day. If you look at the official US history of that event (it's here: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1830-1860/opening-to-ja... ), it is characterized as a great opening of Japan to the world. In fact, it was…

Your notion of the opening of Japan as arrogant imperialism is as subjective and useless as America's notion of it as, well, the opening of Japan.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#106

Post by alphonsegaston »

nihonde wrote: post #99
alphonsegaston wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or simply that they were enamored with the colonial example of the west and had a tradition of extreme militarism and more fortunate historical circumstances that allowed them to project this sadistic fantasy on to their neighbors. I think you should be cautious in positing "world domination," premised on mass-genocide and slavery, as a sign of strength. It was a massive regression of humanity that was thankfully che…

Is America a strong country in your mind? (It also has a history of mass genocide and slavery.)

In some realpolitik sense, of course. But never would I argue that the grotesque excesses of American history were signals of strength or potential in line with some greater ideality. They were unchecked manifestations of baser instincts which their societies failed to counter. Strength was to be found in those that, faced with these circumstances, stood against them.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#107

Post by vasilipupkin »

nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

your comment is data free. The article is specifically about growing poverty, which can be quantified. It is not about how Japan is a terrible or a great place to live.

For example, according to this http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/japan/

the poor in Japan live on 8.4K a year, while in Germany they live on 13k a year. Big difference

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#108

Post by pessimizer »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #92
nihonde wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it was intended as an "aside" comment, but it's still interesting, if controversial. I believe that there is an unbroken thread from the arrival of American ships in Tokyo bay in 1853 to the current day. If you look at the official US history of that event (it's here: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1830-1860/opening-to-ja... ), it is characterized as a great opening of Japan to the world. In fact, it was…

Following this line of thought I would assume America is chasing Europe on their imperialist fancy, Europe (modern) those of the British, the British chasing Romes fancies, Rome those of the Greeks, the Greeks those of the Egyptians (and Persians?) and the Egyptians those of Sumer. This probably goes on though noone left writings before the Sumerians (but my knowledge is fague here). I would also assume the invasions…

In the cases of America and the British, and Rome and the Greeks, this was explicitly true.

As for Europe, it's not a country and doesn't move as a unit. Different European countries were pioneers in imperialism, others were latecomers, others were mostly shut out and ended up doing more desperate, brutal invasions in less appealing places.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#109

Post by pessimizer »

nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

> Western commentators will tell us that huge bloc of elders are an impossible burden on Japanese society.

It's only a certain type of ideological commentator, who also tend to insist on the contradiction that the burden of a growing number of elderly is unsustainable for the working age population, but that we are also all being automated out of our jobs.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#110

Post by jazzyk »

nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

>You can't put a price on peace of mind

The peace of mind may not last too long.

The Japanese public debt exceeded one quadrillion yen (US$10.46 trillion) in 2013, more than twice the annual gross domestic product of Japan [1].

>general atmosphere of civility and willingness to come together for a common cause.

Yes, the US could use a bit more civility. But in Japan, the "willingness to come together" comes at a price - of culturally suppressed individual expression.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_public_debt

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