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Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

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Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#61

Post by gozur88 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #37
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #12

Basically there are two definitions of poverty with two crowds of followers. 1. People are poor if they can't afford (basic) things. People are very poor if they go hungry to bed. 2. People are poor if they earn less [1] than the average (not median) household. From the article "The report looked at the gap between the income of the poorest Japanese families with children and the average household income." When does…

> People are poor if they earn less than the average (not median) household. From the article "The report looked at the gap between the income of the poorest Japanese families with children and the average household income." And I thought the US move to define the poverty line as the 40th percentile of income (or something lower; I don't remember this too well) was absurd. The average household income is, by necessit…

It actually makes less sense than that. The poverty line in the US was calculated one year based on some percentage of the median wage. Don't remember what year that was. But since then they just keep adjusting it by the CPI.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#62

Post by Chris2048 »

nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

> which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates

lowest reported life expectancy, lowest reported crime rate.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#63

Post by blowski »

Chris2048 wrote: post #62
nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

> which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates lowest reported life expectancy, lowest reported crime rate.

Is there reason to believe they are both significantly misreported in Japan, compared to the US and EU? Genuine question as I've never seen otherwise but would be interested in reading about it.

=====

I found this article about under reported crime, but couldn't find anything about the life expectancy being wrong.

Japan's Police See No Evil (LA Times) http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#64

Post by nihonde »

achamayou wrote: post #55
nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

To be fair, the way America and Europe are represented in Japanese media is hardly accurate either. I think you should temper your depressed feelings with some bemusement at how cultures never quite understand each other. That's what I would expect a wise oji-san to do anyway.

I lived in America for almost 40 years. I'm familiar with the place.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#65

Post by tonyedgecombe »

adrianN wrote: post #40
raverbashing wrote: post #4

10 yrs of recession, or is it 20 yrs already? Failure to compete in high-tech areas (when was the last time you got a mobile phone made in Japan) Which is funny because Japan was very strong in the modern days of computing and videogames. What happened? My guess is that software got more complex and their vertical way of working is not productive for the complexity expected today

GDP per capita hasn't changed all that much since the late 90's. I wouldn't call that a recession.

Unemployment has remained very low as well, considering their demographic changes Japan is doing quite well.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#66

Post by adrianN »

mikekchar wrote: post #58
adrianN wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What job did you have during that time? Living in rural Japan sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

I was teaching English at the time. I'm currently in the same area programming on contract. It is quite wonderful. To be honest I'm hoping to expand and hire people, but haven't got everything sorted out yet. It occurred to me that it might be possible to find good people who want to live in rural Japan :-). Probably won't get my act together for another year or so...

Write me an e-mail when you do, please: adrian_neumann@gmx.de.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#67

Post by gozur88 »

Japan had a system in which the companies had a paternal relationship with their employees. Once you were hired, they kept you on even if they didn't need you. Even if you'd become too old to be productive (madogiwa zoku, or "window seat tribe"). The welfare system, such as it was, consisted of companies taking care of their employees with government bureaucrats and public opinion punishing transgressors.

But that kind of system can only function when the economy is growing. When the recession started in 1989 Japanese companies found themselves in the position of either making people they didn't need redundant or going out of business. Since there isn't much of a social safety net for the unemployed, people who got laid off (and the growing ranks of part timers - "arubaito") didn't have anywhere to turn.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#68

Post by [deleted] »

achamayou wrote: post #55
nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

To be fair, the way America and Europe are represented in Japanese media is hardly accurate either. I think you should temper your depressed feelings with some bemusement at how cultures never quite understand each other. That's what I would expect a wise oji-san to do anyway.

[deleted]

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#69

Post by facepalm »

nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

Thinking of WWII, Japan's culture was not always on the right track...

Coming from Germany, I also wonder how much of the economic success stories of Japan and Germany is really because of cultural aspects, and how much is due to protectionism for example from the US. I think Germany was supported by the US a lot, as a shield against communism. Maybe a similar reasoning was at work in Japan.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#70

Post by nihonde »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #47
nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

"They've seen first-hand the folly of chasing America and Europe on their imperialist fancies." Interesting view on history.

Well, it was intended as an "aside" comment, but it's still interesting, if controversial. I believe that there is an unbroken thread from the arrival of American ships in Tokyo bay in 1853 to the current day. If you look at the official US history of that event (it's here: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1830-1860/opening-to-ja...), it is characterized as a great opening of Japan to the world. In fact, it was in the pursuit of an arrogant imperialist notion of "Manifest Destiny" that Commodore Perry humiliated the Japanese and scared them into thinking that they needed to get into the expansion and conquest game in order to survive. It was a clear message from the Americans: we're coming in whether you like it or not.

Some call it a wake up call; others call it a provocation. Reasonable men and women can disagree about it. There's no doubt that it directly led to the lowest and highest points of Japanese civilization in the 20th century, though.

I think if people looked into the context of events with more curiosity, we would ultimately all benefit from the inquiry.

(And yes, I do believe that America and much of Europe are still pursuing an imperialist agenda. Call me crazy, if you want.)

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