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Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

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Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#91

Post by mcv »

PlzSnow wrote: post #52

If he's so courageous then why doesn't he ever criticise the corrupt totalitarian state of Russia? I really can't imagine why...

Well, why do you think? He's stuck in Russia because of his NSA whistleblowing, and Putin isn't exactly the most tolerant about criticism. He's playing the cards he's dealt the best he can.

But why don't you do something? Is Snowden the only person responsible for criticizing all the wrongs in the world? He's already done, and sacrificed, way more than the vast majority of people. Why is that still not good enough? What have you done and sacrificed for others?

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#92

Post by pluma »

cat-dev-null wrote: post #22

There's direct Aeroflot flights between Moscow and Oslo (SVO - OSL). US fighters and/or ships could _arguably_ intercept a civilian aircraft in international waters and force landing in another country.

"Arguably". Remember Morales. You don't need fighter jets to intercept/divert a civilian aircraft in "friendly" airspace. Just pull the right strings.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#93

Post by mcv »

EthanHeilman wrote: post #10
xaduha wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would Putin even let him leave Russia?

It would look really bad for Russia if Snowden was held against his will.

Yeah, but Russia already looks pretty bad for a variety of other reasons. I don't find this a particularly compelling argument.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#94

Post by mcv »

cat-dev-null wrote: post #22

There's direct Aeroflot flights between Moscow and Oslo (SVO - OSL). US fighters and/or ships could _arguably_ intercept a civilian aircraft in international waters and force landing in another country.

But there's no international waters between Moscow and Oslo. The Baltic isn't that big, and even if there is a patch of international waters (which I strongly doubt), it'd be easily avoided.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#95

Post by mcv »

pluma wrote: post #92
cat-dev-null wrote: post #22

There's direct Aeroflot flights between Moscow and Oslo (SVO - OSL). US fighters and/or ships could _arguably_ intercept a civilian aircraft in international waters and force landing in another country.

"Arguably". Remember Morales. You don't need fighter jets to intercept/divert a civilian aircraft in "friendly" airspace. Just pull the right strings.

Russia shares a tiny bit of border with Norway. Even if Finland, Sweden and the Baltic states don't want to cooperate, as long as Russia and Moscow agree, the plane could simply take a detour through the far north.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#96

Post by pluma »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #73
wildmusings wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm interested to hear a rational explanation for why anyone would think that Snowden's whistleblowing was anything but altruistic. He divulged a lot of information about America's foreign intelligence operations as well. Spying on other countries is the original and core mission of the intelligence services. There's no question as to its legal legitimacy and he directly undermined it by revealing the nature and ex…

> It also caused serious diplomatic and political problems, with Germany for example. It didn't really look like a serious problem from within Germany. Our administration is as pro-US as before. We've stopped sharing some information, but I doubt that has caused the NSA much trouble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany–United_States_relation...

The only thing that changed is that there's the NSA Untersuchungsausschuss, which is "investigating" the NSA spying affair.

It's pretty clear that the investigations will not yield anything we don't already know and will have no consequences on US-German relations. Our NATO membership alone is enough to make us avoid upsetting the US at all costs (just as we've been turning a blind eye on Turkey all this time).

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#97

Post by rawTruthHurts »

PlzSnow wrote: post #52

If he's so courageous then why doesn't he ever criticise the corrupt totalitarian state of Russia? I really can't imagine why...

Because sooner or later he'd run out of countries to hide in and he would have to flee to Alpha Centauri.

Still, blind guess, it's safe to say that he is more corageous than you.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#98

Post by drjesusphd »

arca_vorago wrote: post #35

One thing yo remember is Norway isnt partnof NATO, which makes quite a bit of difference in this. Still not sure what the end result will be, but good luck to Snowden and I hope Norway does it. If only so I dont have to hear any more ignoramouses talk about how Snowden went to Russia on purpose.

Norway is a Nato member, but Sweden and Finland aren't.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#99

Post by chriswarbo »

PlzSnow wrote: post #52

If he's so courageous then why doesn't he ever criticise the corrupt totalitarian state of Russia? I really can't imagine why...

Many people are already highly critical of Russia (see, for example, yourself); what could Snowden add to that, and would it be worth the cost?

Before Snowden's leaks, those critical of the NSA could be shrugged off as paranoid tinfoil hats; Snowden not only brought that criticism into the public light, but provided hard evidence to back it up. That was a great contribution, and one he thought was worth the (also great) cost.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#100

Post by vintermann »

alkonaut wrote: post #78
_0w8t wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! It is up to the court system to decide what to do about a particular case. Any promise from a government official will be a lie.

They can circumvent it pretty easily by not saying "We will not extradite Edward Snowden" but simply doing by making a very clear statement of two facts: i) "We do not extradite anyone who would risk a death penalty" and ii) "We believe it is clear that Edward Snowden would risk a death penalty in the US". Having said those two things (which they can), they have implied the what he wants to know, without breaking any…

It's also a myth that Sweden can't do the same for Assange (although one defended by certain lawyers for political reasons).

The courts can only stop extraditions, not non-extraditions. Politicians like to pretend their hands are tied because they would like to blame the bureaucracy for unpopular decisions, but they have full freedom to interpret their own bilateral treaty obligations. If the Norwegian government says he's a political refugee, he is as far as Norwegian law is concerned.

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