Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German] • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#151

Post by tunap » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

nicelynicely wrote: post #50

azazqadir wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it will solve terrorism. I said it's a good thing that government is trying at least.

How is gathering more data on citizens a good thing? Do you want to live in a police state? How will this benefit European people? This rubbish is what leads to civil wars. You (and people like you) think you should know everything about everyone. People fought and died to protect Europeans from that. You want to go back to fighting for basic rights that were hard won with peoples blood.

It's a good thing for data farmers, marketeers and opressors in power. Remember who the governments are beholden to and their actions(elimination of anonymity, TPIP et al, constant surveillance) all make sense... from their perspective.

*Posted from my pre-elop nokia w/ a an anon SIM.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#152

Post by hartpuff » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:10 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #140

hartpuff wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One election gone wrong is all it takes and all those data will be used for genocide. Again. Because first they'll come for the contractless? Why is it some people are incapable of discussing Germany without tiresomely invoking the Nazis?

> Why is it some people are incapable of discussing Germany without tiresomely invoking the Nazis? I know, right? You'd think slaughtering a few million people in half a decade or so was some kind of big deal, or something.

What happened to Native Americans was "kind of a big deal" too. So was slavery. Should people therefore bring them up every time there's a completely unrelated discussion about the USA?

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#153

Post by hartpuff » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:12 PM UTC

Lingster wrote: post #72

hartpuff wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One election gone wrong is all it takes and all those data will be used for genocide. Again. Because first they'll come for the contractless? Why is it some people are incapable of discussing Germany without tiresomely invoking the Nazis?

Why is it some ppl always have to complain about that?

Perhaps they hope the people doing it will gather some other point of reference about the country.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#154

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:13 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #150

05 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be technically required, but.. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/10/free-will-sell-sim-cards-us... Where do I put my passport in this SIM vending machine? :-)

At least in the picture of the vending machine I see no possibility of using cash. Instead you probably have to use your ATM card or credit card, which leaves a strong data trace.

I'm thinking, the anonymity of cash is currently very popular, but probably unintended. See, used to be anybody could print currency, but not everybody accepted all the different kinds.

The Govt wanted to streamline banking and commerce, so they said "federal currency is legal tender for everything". Not because cash is cool. Because they only had cash or barter, and wanted just one cash.

Maybe we should rethink all this - if anonymity is important, cash isn't the best way. E.g. they could chip our coins and paper money, and track it through every transaction. Still cash; but not anonymous.

Anyway just thinking out loud.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#155

Post by tangent128 » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:15 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #27

hamishforbes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. You just can't get a sim card with voice/SMS capability. Foreigners can get data only SIMs no problem, most airports will sell them (often out of a vending machine) e.g. https://t.iijmio.jp/en/

Given VOIP, what is the rationale of making this distinction?

So voice SIMs can't be used as throwaway cell numbers, I'd guess.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#156

Post by jarman » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:22 PM UTC

creshal wrote: post #124

blah5432 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resistance to ID is just an americanism. There are no practical negative consecuences and a lot of good ones. Identity is a right that government must warrant, not something dirty that should be buried.

> Resistance to ID is just an americanism. I literally just explained how it's not. > There are no practical negative consecuences Assuming an ideal, benevolent government. (Presumably residing on an infinite frictionless plane, feasting on spherical cows.)

Government will identify citizens anyway. It's not choice between ID and no ID, but between simple ID and ad-hoc scheme (Name/Surname/Birthdate/Residence composite, or issuing separate id for each institution).

While IDs do have negative consequences, I see zero downside in replacing VATIN, passport number (linked list of "previous document" in worst case, down to birth certificate), army id number, employment record book number and "$surname $name $patronymic, born $birth_date at $birth_place, registered $registration_place" official title with single citizen ID.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#157

Post by creshal » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:24 PM UTC

hartpuff wrote: post #152

throwanem wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it some people are incapable of discussing Germany without tiresomely invoking the Nazis? I know, right? You'd think slaughtering a few million people in half a decade or so was some kind of big deal, or something.

What happened to Native Americans was "kind of a big deal" too. So was slavery. Should people therefore bring them up every time there's a completely unrelated discussion about the USA?

In a "completely unrelated" discussion? No. But bringing up past German government failures in a discussion about a German government tightening up blanket surveillance of all their citizens is not "completely unrelated".

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#158

Post by creshal » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:25 PM UTC

hartpuff wrote: post #153

Lingster wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it some ppl always have to complain about that?

Perhaps they hope the people doing it will gather some other point of reference about the country.

Please do tell me what points of reference I need to gather about my own home country.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#159

Post by throwanem » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:25 PM UTC

hartpuff wrote: post #152

throwanem wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it some people are incapable of discussing Germany without tiresomely invoking the Nazis? I know, right? You'd think slaughtering a few million people in half a decade or so was some kind of big deal, or something.

What happened to Native Americans was "kind of a big deal" too. So was slavery. Should people therefore bring them up every time there's a completely unrelated discussion about the USA?

Completely unrelated? A German government legislates the use of technology to make identifying and tracking its citizens easier, and you can't see how people draw the comparison?

As for your invidious attempt to distract from said comparison by slinging mud, I'll just point out that you're severely underplaying your hand here - a goodly fraction of what went into Hitlerism, not least the theory and practice of eugenics, originated with Progressive Era luminaries of the United States. Indeed, our nation might've gone much the same way as yours, were it not for the benefit of Germany's salutary, if horrible, example.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#160

Post by 05 » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #150

05 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be technically required, but.. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/10/free-will-sell-sim-cards-us... Where do I put my passport in this SIM vending machine? :-)

At least in the picture of the vending machine I see no possibility of using cash. Instead you probably have to use your ATM card or credit card, which leaves a strong data trace.

The name on the credit card is a much weaker data point than an actual photo ID. Assuming terrorists have access to guns and explosives, but not to stolen/registered to a fake name cards is not very reasonable. Even with the photo ID requirement, it's shouldn't be that hard to buy a stolen phone with a prepaid SIM that the owner didn't bother blocking.