Live data from Hacker News

Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

pressetext.com

121–130 of 192 posts

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#121
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think these checks are probably already pretty common in other parts of the world. Germany is a bit touchy when it comes to measures like this. After the experiences of the Nazi regime, even things like a census or introduction of a TIN met massive, years long resistance. One election gone wrong is all it takes and all those data will be used for genocide. Again.

> Germany is a bit touchy when it comes to measures like this. After the experiences of the Nazi regime, even things like a census or introduction of a TIN met massive, years long resistance. Rather because of the experience with the Stasi in the former GDR.

The Gestapo used the same – and worse – methods as the Stasi did, and in the 1980s, when the general census was planned, the Stasi's exact methods weren't well-studied in the west. The 1983 census decision mainly evolved around theoretical threats (panopticon effect) and the provisions of the German constitution (basic law), which was made in the immediate aftermath of WW2 and grounded on the concept of inalienable human dignity.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#122
The last time I visited Germany I was asked for my details in order to buy a phone, and the same to register the SIM card.

I just gave invented details both times.

So now it's impossible, eh?

A mobile phone might be a 'new invention' that you can get away with not using, but what about transport? In my city it's been game over for years, decades even.

The London Underground is the one subway in London. It uses a smart card, the cash fares are a multiple of the cost, and there are CCTV cameras everywhere anyway so you're tracked.

The red buses removed cash fares and now smart card/contactless bank card are the only way of paying.

The central region is plastered in car licence plate recognition cameras so you can't drive. (They exist ostensibly because there is a congestion charge for driving in the central region).

You can cycle or walk but facial recognition kills that eventually.

So yeah, existing in London basically means the authorities know, or have the ability to know, where you are at all times within a few metres regardless of whether you use a phone or not, it's just a matter of how integrated these databases are and whether anyone can be bothered.

To me it feels a lot like, in major cities anyway, this privacy battle is just completely lost, because there are attacks on all fronts. You can have your anonymous phone, but are you wearing face paints? Do you ever drive? Do you ever take public transport?

The further you go out of the city, assuming you don't have a mobile phone, I suppose there are fewer data points available. You can roam about in farmer's fields or something, no cameras there yet. Maybe the minor cities have analogue cameras, or they're turned off due to funding, or whatever.

It's gone beyond something to be depressed or feel a call to action about at this point I feel - it's a bit like a lion chasing a gazelle - it just is. Fighting against this individual initiative feels good, but is it ultimately futile?

The actions required in order to attempt not to fall into these databases seem to have gone from "don't use your real name online" to "don't drive a car" to "don't take trains with your bank card" to "pay cash on the bus" to... eventually it's just done, all of it's tracked, I can pay with cash at the local store but there's a digital IP camera in the corner so sooner or later they know it anyway.

And the rational amongst us know that it's not about us. It means nothing that I can go 'off the grid'. What means something is that society as a whole is able to appreciate this, and I think the number of intrusions is high enough now that they simply can't. It's like asking people to go without oxygen. It's everywhere.

The fight I'm really concerned with is privacy within the home, in private establishments. I want to know that conversations between me and my friends stay within that box, that private sphere. Miniaturization and propagation of technology just seems to make that an impossible goal, though.

I don't want it, but I really feel like privacy is dead, we just don't fully know it yet.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roaming in the EU is cheap. On pay-as-you-go (prepaid), it's cheaper for me to send a text or make a call from Germany than it is back home here in the UK.

Are you sure you're roaming? Or did you buy a pay-as-you-go local SIM? I'm unaware of any provider who actually discounts texts/calls while roaming. Three in the UK charge you the same price in some European countries but that's the best deal I know of. Roaming is using your SIM outside the geographical coverage area of the home network.

Yes, I'm roaming.

The EU's mandatory maximum 'roaming' prices are lower than the normal prices charged at home. So, when I use my UK Tesco Mobile phone in Germany, things become cheaper.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#124
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI: the TIN is a unique number associated to each person living in Germany. New born babies are getting a TIN faster than most of the congratulation cards... It is issued by the tax authorities and as a foreigner living in Germany you also get one.

Resistance to ID is just an americanism. There are no practical negative consecuences and a lot of good ones. Identity is a right that government must warrant, not something dirty that should be buried.

> Resistance to ID is just an americanism.

I literally just explained how it's not.

> There are no practical negative consecuences

Assuming an ideal, benevolent government.

(Presumably residing on an infinite frictionless plane, feasting on spherical cows.)

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the definition change in that context?

For example the case of the social scientist Andrej Holm ( https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrej_Holm&oldid... - in German) who researched in the internet using some keywords ("Gentrification" and "Prekarisierung" (casualization)) that were also used by the terror group mg (militante gruppe ("militant group")) and thus got into the crossfire of the surveillance state.

So someone was wrongly accused of a crime because the methods of catching criminals (that is the surveillance state) turned out to be flawed. I still don't see how that changes the definition of what "criminals" are.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany is a bit touchy when it comes to measures like this. After the experiences of the Nazi regime, even things like a census or introduction of a TIN met massive, years long resistance. Rather because of the experience with the Stasi in the former GDR.

The Gestapo used the same – and worse – methods as the Stasi did, and in the 1980s, when the general census was planned, the Stasi's exact methods weren't well-studied in the west. The 1983 census decision mainly evolved around theoretical threats (panopticon effect) and the provisions of the German constitution (basic law), which was made in the immediate aftermath of WW2 and grounded on the concept of inalienable h…

For the census (in the 80th) you are right, but today the political activists rather use comparisons with the Stasi. For example when Wolfgang Schäuble was Interior Minister activists against the Zugangserschwerungsgesetz (Access Impediment Act) often used the slogan "Stasi 2.0" (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi_2.0). The same slogan is used by activists against Vorratsdatenspeicherung (data retention).

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#127
as a tourist, first priority on the ground in a new country is to get a data connection. I had more difficulty in Germany than other EU countries visited around the same time. Despite promise of a handful of prepaid sim's available everywhere, activation was a roadblock because no local credit card. Eventually found my way to an O2 store where they used their own store address to activate for me and it was all good

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#128

The last time I visited Germany I was asked for my details in order to buy a phone, and the same to register the SIM card. I just gave invented details both times. So now it's impossible, eh? A mobile phone might be a 'new invention' that you can get away with not using, but what about transport? In my city it's been game over for years, decades even. The London Underground is the one subway in London. It uses a smar…

One thing I am interested in is visualizing a journey, or an average day, and considering the global view of it.

Has anyone attempted such a thing? For example, on my commute to work I might pass a security camera, tap in my smart card, pass a few more cameras, spend 50 mins on a predefined route (unless I jumped a fence which a camera would probably see me doing), etc etc.

So on the left side of the 'video', you would have me walking about doing stuff, and on the right side, you can have a google-maps overlay of what's actually happening, little pop ups 'stegosaurus buys a pack of chewing gum', etc.

The idea has been floating around in my head for a while, I don't know why or what I'd hope it would achieve, just seems like a fun way to illustrate the problem, if it even is a problem and not just a natural progression.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example the case of the social scientist Andrej Holm ( https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrej_Holm&oldid... - in German) who researched in the internet using some keywords ("Gentrification" and "Prekarisierung" (casualization)) that were also used by the terror group mg (militante gruppe ("militant group")) and thus got into the crossfire of the surveillance state.

So someone was wrongly accused of a crime because the methods of catching criminals (that is the surveillance state) turned out to be flawed. I still don't see how that changes the definition of what "criminals" are.

If there weren't the surveillance state, he'd never be put into pretrial imprisonment (for which strong prior evidence that he is indeed a criminal is necessary). So thanks to the surveillance state he was handled as a criminal.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#130
In a tangentially related topic, here's an interesting animation of location tracking of a German politician based on his phone records:

http://www.zeit.de/datenschutz/malte-spitz-data-retention

Malte Spitz sued to have his telephone provider hand over six months of his phone data. He gave it to Zeit Online who used it to create this record of where he had been.

It's probably not too surprising to many people any more, but I still find it amazing when I watch it. And it might be interesting to people who don't realize how detailed the information is. I also think the visualisation is nice.

Post reply on HN