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For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

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Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#331

Post by bsder »

collyw wrote: post #316
clevernickname wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite absolutely exists. I've had female bosses, professors, etc. that all the women loved and admired, while all the men agreed she was out to get them.

The female boss in one place I worked seem to hate all the women who worked under her, but generally loved the guys.

This seems to be my general experience. Female boss/female employee seems to be the most volatile combination.

To be fair, from my viewpoint, most of them seemed to be actually acting fairly. If a guy had done something similar, any one of them would have ripped him apart, too.

I don't have any explanation.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#332

Post by ownagefool »

stcredzero wrote: post #319
ownagefool wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. You've now crippled the a girls self-esteem, where as using the nice way would give her the ability to lie to herself whilst making sure to never ask again.

You've now crippled the a girls self-esteem I find this weirdly Victorian. I should treat grown women as fragile flowers that can't take a straight answer?

Which is the same way they treat you. I don't think it's my fault this escapes you but I must admit, it's neither really based on logic nor efficacy, it's a social thing.

Put more emphasis on "I want to avoid an awkward situation" and "I don't want to hurt their feelings" less on "but people are adults" and you're pretty much there though.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#333

Post by Paul-ish »

sqldba wrote: post #4

It sounds terrible. And yet working in he unrelated field of IT I haven't seen it. I have seen a bunch of assholes in high positions though and have to put up with their idiotic demands and abuse. So when I read these articles I wonder if it's the same people and how they translate treating male workers like garbage into treating female workers like garbage. It's not misogyny; it's welcome to the workforce and dealin…

I don't see how this make a difference. Workers shouldn't have to accept abuse and poor treatment from others. Saying that someone treats everyone equally poorly too doesn't excuse their behavior. If we can effectively fight against jerks in the workplace by making it a fight against misogyny in the workplace, that seems better than the current situation.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#334

Post by MollyR »

clevernickname wrote: post #256
dagw wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or are there really nice bosses who are just complete assholes to women? My friend's ex-boss was like that. All the guys at the company thought he was the best boss ever and all the women hated him with a passion.

The opposite absolutely exists. I've had female bosses, professors, etc. that all the women loved and admired, while all the men agreed she was out to get them.

yea it really depends on the person. I've had female bosses that went out of their way to harass men because they knew they could get away with it (HR didn't believe the men), and I've also had female bosses who were threatened by younger women, and harassed the heck out me.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#335

Post by ainiriand »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #231
ainiriand wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nabokov's Lolita is also art. Lester the molester is also art. Invalid argument.

Have you actually read Lolita.

Yes, I found it quite interesting but deeply disturbing. You can rest assured that I'm not the only one: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2005/12/lolita_at_5... https://101books.net/2011/12/15/lolita-inside-the-mind-of-a-...

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#336

Post by bittercynic »

bsder wrote: post #318
bittercynic wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is pretty safe for a man to socialize with men and women at work, but you have to recognize signals that a person doesn't want to talk to you and find a gracious way to deal with that. If an adult is unable to recognize those basic signals, what training options are available to get up-to-speed?

> I think it is pretty safe for a man to socialize with men and women at work, but you have to recognize signals that a person doesn't want to talk to you and find a gracious way to deal with that. Really? Recognize the signals in the single most ambiguous pursuit in human nature? Unless you're Brad Pitt, some women will find advances unwanted. Others will welcome them. One cannot differentiate that until after havin…

Is socializing the same as making advances for you? I agree, making advances is risky, and you probably shouldn't do it at work, or at the workplace of the person you're making advances towards.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#337

Post by ainiriand »

sp332 wrote: post #207
ainiriand wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an excellent advice. Made by someone who writes for a living. However, the comment system is not made to make us all agree about everything. My concern is about the restriction you put in a unconscious way to your opinions when there is dissent. Is this a kind of censorship? A very sofisticate one?

I don't see the point in expressing your opinions on this forum if you don't care whether anyone agrees with you. If you're not interested in connecting with the readers and influencing them, why not just keep it to yourself? What are you accomplishing by posting here?

I really do care if the 'audience' agrees with me. What I'm trying to understand is why I have to restrain myself just because I think that I might not be under the most popular line of thought or going to arise some controversy. No one deserves downvoting for expressing its line of thought even if it is an unpopular one. I would never downvote anyone for expressing its beliefs in a proper manner.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#339

Post by [deleted] »

ainiriand wrote: post #337
sp332 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the point in expressing your opinions on this forum if you don't care whether anyone agrees with you. If you're not interested in connecting with the readers and influencing them, why not just keep it to yourself? What are you accomplishing by posting here?

I really do care if the 'audience' agrees with me. What I'm trying to understand is why I have to restrain myself just because I think that I might not be under the most popular line of thought or going to arise some controversy. No one deserves downvoting for expressing its line of thought even if it is an unpopular one. I would never downvote anyone for expressing its beliefs in a proper manner.

[deleted]

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#340

Post by bsder »

bittercynic wrote: post #336
bsder wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it is pretty safe for a man to socialize with men and women at work, but you have to recognize signals that a person doesn't want to talk to you and find a gracious way to deal with that. Really? Recognize the signals in the single most ambiguous pursuit in human nature? Unless you're Brad Pitt, some women will find advances unwanted. Others will welcome them. One cannot differentiate that until after havin…

Is socializing the same as making advances for you? I agree, making advances is risky, and you probably shouldn't do it at work, or at the workplace of the person you're making advances towards.

> and you probably shouldn't do it at work

Why not? You spend 1/3+ of your life at work. You are more likely to meet a wider selection of people at work than you are through even your weak social network if you work for a company of any reasonable size.

There aren't hard and fast rules when social interactions come into play. Social interactions are, by nature, ambiguous and have lots of societal context.

Yes, there are bright lines which are obviously criminal, but, below that, it gets very murky, very quickly.

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