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For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

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Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#121

Post by rayiner »

sqldba wrote: post #4

It sounds terrible. And yet working in he unrelated field of IT I haven't seen it. I have seen a bunch of assholes in high positions though and have to put up with their idiotic demands and abuse. So when I read these articles I wonder if it's the same people and how they translate treating male workers like garbage into treating female workers like garbage. It's not misogyny; it's welcome to the workforce and dealin…

> Or are there really nice bosses who are just complete assholes to women with zero crossover?

That's an unnecessary dichotomy. A third possibility is that there are asshole bosses who have additional tools in their arsenal when it comes to harassing woman employees.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#122

Post by babygoat »

woodman wrote: post #74
LoSboccacc wrote: post #26

this: > Universities, Mia notes, have protocols for dealing with complaints of sexual harassment seems part of the problem. sexual harassment should be a 'go straight to police' offence, not a hr reprimand. if the problem is as widespread as it's made in the article, it cannot correct from within.

This is the sort of thinking that leads to people calling 911 for disputes relating to McNuggets. Calling in armed mediators is not likely to improve your situation.

Because sexual harassment is comparable to a dispute relating to McNuggets?

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#123

Post by ceejayoz »

woodman wrote: post #115
masklinn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then there's the other problem that even for criminal sexual harassment police may or may not be willing to help (the humongous backlog in unprocessed "rape kits" being but one concrete evidence of the latter)

> ...unprocessed "rape kits" being but one concrete evidence... The size of the "backlog" is an impressive number, but it was my understanding that it is primarily due to policies that lead to collection by default - regardless of actual need. Like when the perpetrator of the crime confesses, or when the DA determines that the rape kit isn't evidence of rape. Collecting by default makes sense as it is a time sensitiv…

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2015/...

> Forensic experts at the Michigan State Police have been helping to clear the backlog, with the help of millions of dollars in funding appropriated by the Legislature.

> Worthy said Detroit's kit-testing initiative has identified 2,616 suspects — including 477 serial rapists — and that 21 convictions have been secured. She said 106 cases are actively being investigated and 1,350 cases are awaiting investigation.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#124

Post by apecat »

mooseburger wrote: post #80
makomk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of men that have gotten away with it for years and even then kept their jobs (unlike the women they targetted)?

Snark aside, I just wonder why I don't know any men like that in my personal life. The problem seems quite widespread after all.

I'm male but I have the benefit of being surrounded people of various genders who talk openly about stuff like this. I can only conclude that a great deal of everyday sexism and sexual abuse can be near invisible to men.

Some things can be hard to believe, because, being indentified as male, one tends to see the civil sides of most men.

My advice is to generally be more observant of people in social situations, like parties, lunch hours etc. Especially in corners, corridors etc where they may assume not to be overheard.

Sometimes, venues, clubs and flats have their own geography of fear where some women feel a need to actively measure up space in between themselves and other people. If you have friends who may be subject to this, try asking. At the right occasion.

Especially a SO may be a good place to start if you want to hear general experiences. It can be as simple as "common sense knowledge" of whom you don't want to be stuck with smoking a cigarette on a balcony at a mutual friend's house party or family get-together.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#125

Post by alphonsegaston »

mooseburger wrote: post #80
makomk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of men that have gotten away with it for years and even then kept their jobs (unlike the women they targetted)?

Snark aside, I just wonder why I don't know any men like that in my personal life. The problem seems quite widespread after all.

I think the problem is often that we do, we're just not cognizant of it. A lot of sexism is so normalized that the edges of more destructive behavior (jokes and the like) never signal to other men that someone is abusive or demeaning to women. I've had to learn be conscious my self of not indulging casual manifestations of these attitudes, in the same way that "casual" racism is no longer socially permissible.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#126

Post by wfo »

goodcanadian wrote: post #96

I must admit that I was genuinely surprised by this. I have worked in Astronomy (as a technologist) for over a decade, and I have never witnessed this sort of behaviour. Of course, I am male. There are, however, plenty of assholes in the world including in academia, and I have noticed that universities tend not to want to rock the boat, so I suppose that it is not entirely surprising that these things are occurring.…

Biology is one of the most female-friendly STEM fields out there. I've met female biologists, plenty of them. The article describes astrophysics as 90%, 95% male at many of these universities. I think it's likely that the issues aren't quite as systemic in fields which are a little more diverse, but that doesn't mean the issue isn't a cultural, systemic one in astrophysics.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#127

Post by ssharp »

masklinn wrote: post #51
LoSboccacc wrote: post #26

this: > Universities, Mia notes, have protocols for dealing with complaints of sexual harassment seems part of the problem. sexual harassment should be a 'go straight to police' offence, not a hr reprimand. if the problem is as widespread as it's made in the article, it cannot correct from within.

> not a hr reprimand. Not to mention chance as good that the victim will get reprimanded as the culprit. HR's purpose, whether it's in universities or in private companies, is to protect the employer. That's who pays their bills and that's who gives the orders. If a complaint makes the employer look bad and the easiest way to make it go away is to sink the victim, that's exactly what HR will do. The only department l…

It's not useful comparing Universities and private companies in these cases. In the United States, Universities behavior on discrimination and harassment is subject to Title IX and the government can investigate and audit how a University handles and performs in these areas.

The view that HR is only their to protect the employer is a dubious or nebulous, maybe both. The function HR plays will vary by organization, but even with the cynical view that they only exist to protect the organization, protecting the organization also means protecting the organization from lawsuits, government sanctions, etc. from improper and illegal behavior.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#128

Post by allannienhuis »

pc86 wrote: post #10

Can someone explain to me what "nearly over a decade" is supposed to mean?

'over' can also be used to indicate something took place throughout the whole timespan. Short form of 'over the course of little less than a decade'.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#129

Post by scott_s »

goodcanadian wrote: post #96

I must admit that I was genuinely surprised by this. I have worked in Astronomy (as a technologist) for over a decade, and I have never witnessed this sort of behaviour. Of course, I am male. There are, however, plenty of assholes in the world including in academia, and I have noticed that universities tend not to want to rock the boat, so I suppose that it is not entirely surprising that these things are occurring.…

Based on your description, it sounds like your wife has experienced a decent amount of harassment. (I include that extreme bullying in it.) When a number of individual assholes are allowed to continue being assholes, and you need to have a "look out for yourself attitude", that is a systemic problem.

I'm genuinely curious what your wife's take is - she may see it a little differently from you.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#130

Post by coldpie »

Cyph0n wrote: post #92

I never knew BuzzFeed wrote exclusive longform (and interesting) content. Thanks for mentioning it.

BuzzFeed has a crazy amount of real, good journalistic content. I wish they used a separate domain name for their real journalism so I wouldn't have to take the "real article or clickbait" gamble every time I click a buzzfeed.com link.
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