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For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

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Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#111

Post by DelaneyM »

mooseburger wrote: post #80
makomk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of men that have gotten away with it for years and even then kept their jobs (unlike the women they targetted)?

Snark aside, I just wonder why I don't know any men like that in my personal life. The problem seems quite widespread after all.

One asshole will harass 3-5 women over a career. Women make up ~15% of the workforce. Half of women are harassed.

To get to those figures, only ~2% of men need to be assholes.

This is why it's so important for the few men who see it happen to never let it go or brush it under the rug.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#112

Post by sp332 »

ainiriand wrote: post #78
sp332 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're going to convince anyone by just stating what your view is. Give some reasons or something.

I have to give a reasons to why a shirt that depicts naked women is wrong?

Well, yeah. (Also they're not naked.) Heck, there are Bibles that have pictures of naked women in them. Are you saying women aren't allowed to be naked, or no one is allowed to make pictures of them, or they should only be photographs and not fantasies, or what exactly?

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#113

Post by simunaga »

vkou wrote: post #91
simunaga wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A woman's or a man's lawyer?

Since when do lawyers segregate their practices by gender?

My comment isn't about gender. It's about the fact that the same lawyer can prove that you, whether you be a man or woman, victim or criminal, guilty and non-guilty at the same time. Depending on whose side the lawyer is.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#114

Post by matt_wulfeck »

ceejayoz wrote: post #12
sqldba wrote: post #4

It sounds terrible. And yet working in he unrelated field of IT I haven't seen it. I have seen a bunch of assholes in high positions though and have to put up with their idiotic demands and abuse. So when I read these articles I wonder if it's the same people and how they translate treating male workers like garbage into treating female workers like garbage. It's not misogyny; it's welcome to the workforce and dealin…

> And yet working in he unrelated field of IT I haven't seen it. The article notes various reasons for this. It gets covered up, abusers are generally cautious about where/when they do it, some people don't perceive it as abuse, etc. Take Bill Cosby as an example. Decades of consistent reports of behavior (to the point where 30 Rock was making pointed jokes about it years ago), dozens of victims, legal settlements, a…

> Bill Cosby as an example.

Rich and wealthy people can cover up a lot. See Michael Jackson. It doesn't mean that child abuse is rampant among musicians.

I also work in IT and I share the GP question. If it's as rampant as some articles and people make it out to be then the harassers are getting very good at covering it up.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#115

Post by woodman »

masklinn wrote: post #44
ceejayoz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many forms of sexual harassment are not crimes. Some forms (physical assaults, extensive stalking) are, but something like repeatedly asking a subordinate for a date isn't something the police would be able to intervene in.

And then there's the other problem that even for criminal sexual harassment police may or may not be willing to help (the humongous backlog in unprocessed "rape kits" being but one concrete evidence of the latter)

> ...unprocessed "rape kits" being but one concrete evidence...

The size of the "backlog" is an impressive number, but it was my understanding that it is primarily due to policies that lead to collection by default - regardless of actual need. Like when the perpetrator of the crime confesses, or when the DA determines that the rape kit isn't evidence of rape. Collecting by default makes sense as it is a time sensitive issue, but there are plenty of good reasons not to process the kit. If you think that processing should be done by default that is one thing, but lack of processing certainly isn't "concrete evidence" of police apathy.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#116

Post by aembleton »

Cyph0n wrote: post #92

I never knew BuzzFeed wrote exclusive longform (and interesting) content. Thanks for mentioning it.

They do quite a bit of it and fund it through their fluff and click-bait. It's actually a similar model to a lot of traditional broadsheet, just applied to the web.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#117

Post by sageabilly »

mooseburger wrote: post #80
makomk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of men that have gotten away with it for years and even then kept their jobs (unlike the women they targetted)?

Snark aside, I just wonder why I don't know any men like that in my personal life. The problem seems quite widespread after all.

You might, they just aren't doing it to you or around you.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#118

Post by erispoe »

koolba wrote: post #70
randlet wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've confused astronomers and astronauts?

Oh duh ... My mistake for writing as I think rather than after!

To answer your question though, maritime law largely applies in space.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#119

Post by wfo »

woodman wrote: post #74
LoSboccacc wrote: post #26

this: > Universities, Mia notes, have protocols for dealing with complaints of sexual harassment seems part of the problem. sexual harassment should be a 'go straight to police' offence, not a hr reprimand. if the problem is as widespread as it's made in the article, it cannot correct from within.

This is the sort of thinking that leads to people calling 911 for disputes relating to McNuggets. Calling in armed mediators is not likely to improve your situation.

It's the sort of thinking that gets abusive people who commit crimes public criminal records (or at least records of a series of accusations) instead of slaps on the wrist which forever remain private so they can continue their abuse.

The other alternative, calling in University-owned mediators who have no incentive to help you and every incentive to "just make it go away" will almost certainly not improve your situation -- as described in detail in the article.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#120

Post by draugadrotten »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #26

this: > Universities, Mia notes, have protocols for dealing with complaints of sexual harassment seems part of the problem. sexual harassment should be a 'go straight to police' offence, not a hr reprimand. if the problem is as widespread as it's made in the article, it cannot correct from within.

> sexual harassment should be a 'go straight to police' offence, not a hr reprimand.

Police requires evidence and it's often much harder to prove in criminal court than in civil cases - just look at the different OJ Simpson trials.

When you walk to the HR office you don't need any evidence at all and the judge is sometimes a 25 year old HR person fresh from university. That's a much lower bar to pass than going to the police and meeting a judge.

Sexual harassment in the workplace is so much more than what is strictly illegal. It may not be possible to make it illegal to look at someone in the wrong way, but there's no law against that being written to your HR file and having an impact on your future career.

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