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At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

tampabay.com

101–109 of 109 posts

Re: At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

#101
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, it is worth it, and ... the cost of a high quality steak reflects how often you should probably be eating steak. i.e. not very often.

Not to be mean, but I don't recall hearing that in economics.

you're not being mean, you just mistook my sarcastic observation of human behavior at the meat counter with some kind of economic theory.

you're real popular at parties, i bet.

Re: At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

#102
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, it is worth it, and ... the cost of a high quality steak reflects how often you should probably be eating steak. i.e. not very often.

I don't agree that the cost of food reflects how often we should eat it. See: seafood, rare spices, berries, nuts.

[deleted]

Re: At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

#103
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say "dislike" but "distrust" a little, for these reasons: Modern industrial agriculture is both a triumph and a tragedy of optimization. It is now possible to buy a cheap, beautiful looking, round, red tomato any day of the year in most supermarkets near me - and they all taste like crap. At the same time it is getting more and more difficult to buy a good tomato when they are in seasonal around here. Many…

Transgenics enable some solutions to what you're talking about, though. You can breed in disease resistance to your gourmet line of choice over a decade or two at considerable expense, or pop in an R gene for pennies, relatively speaking. There's absolutely nothing about transgene technology that implies monoculture; if anything, it dramatically lowers the barriers for breeding and developing new and interesting crop…

If it wasn't clear, I didn't mean this was an inherent issue with transgenics, but in the way we use them.

Re: At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

#104
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It costs £15/$21 for a single t-bone, but man is it worth it. I've had plenty of local meat, and I'm in a rural setting known for its farming. I'm skeptical. I'd love to see this actually tested, because I think this is an alternate view of the article; the "hipster" crowd is so keen on getting locally sourced food because it just tastes oh-so-much better (and they're more than happy to tell you). Half the time the…

'global food supply chain' is off-shoring; think of it in the same way as the mis-use of H1B visas and transferring I.T. work to low-wage economies, leaving 'local' I.T. workers out of a job. Much of the unstated benefit of locally produced food is in a shorter time between harvest and plate (fresher), less handling (bruising), less transportation (ecological), less packaging (resources + cost), shorter supply chain…

All seemingly great reasons to buy local produce, but you failed to answer his question. How do you know local-joe-schmoe actually has "more pride and care"? I've don't buy apples with bruises, despite them travelling thousands of miles. Better for the environment, economy, etc sure, but his questions was purely about the quality of the product.

Re: At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

#105
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Born-n-bred and live on a farm. GMOs are a form of proprietary lock-in backed by legal restrictions. The underlying problem with almost all GMOs is that they are tied to a particular chemical combination, and the seed must be re-purchased every year (the harvested seed is sterile and/or you cannot (legally) re-seed). Those chemical/GMO businesses then have a strangle-hold on the farmers. Farmers are enticed by low pr…

Ask your folks about the hybrid seed they've been buying since before you were born. GMOs didn't change a thing about the economics of seed because hybrid crops have been around for a lot longer. It's only when you recognize this that the decline of seed co-ops makes sense. It didn't just start to happen recently, it's been going on for decades. As long as GMOs are so expensive to take to market (and they're dirt che…

I was born in the mid-60s and my memories go back to 1970 when I first helped 'dress' the seed corn (wheat and barley). My grandfather was using much the same process when he began farming around 1910.

Seed wheat, barley, potatoes and oil-seed rape (Canola) are still produced using the same breeding process we've used for several generations, but with the added benefit of having very much more accurate technical support for measuring the benefits (or lack thereof) of new strains.

Hybrid seeds through selective breeding is something very different from a single human-engineered genetic intervention.

Re: At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

#106
All these things get gamed. If you don't know something about your supplier, its probably getting gamed.

My Sister sells chocolate. She gets it from Winan's from Ohio. Knows the supplier folk; visits the place they make all the stuff. Knows their supplier. They get chocolate in liquid form from their plantation in Nicaragua. Folks there grow it, process it and ship the liquor to Ohio. So verified fair trade.

Also, its healthier. Imported beans (like everybody else) have to be fumigated upon import. Agricultural product. But the liquor is a finished product; no fumigation! SO that makes some people happier.

Anway she only knows all this (and trusts it) because she knows the Winans personally, and visits the plant regularly.

Re: At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

#107
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'global food supply chain' is off-shoring; think of it in the same way as the mis-use of H1B visas and transferring I.T. work to low-wage economies, leaving 'local' I.T. workers out of a job. Much of the unstated benefit of locally produced food is in a shorter time between harvest and plate (fresher), less handling (bruising), less transportation (ecological), less packaging (resources + cost), shorter supply chain…

> leaving 'local' I.T. workers out of a job. Well, I'm not really sure that the local guy deserves a job any more than the guy in India does. I do agree with your post, generally, though I remain skeptical about certain things, like "more pride and care", for example. Remember, this argument is about "buy local", as in radius. It isn't about factory vs small-farm. As a Canadian, I can buy Alberta beef in my grocery s…

I'm not arguing factory vs small-farm; the system processes imposed by factory methods can maintain consistency of production even given lower-skilled, lower-waged, less personally invested, employees.

Generally though family farms are more personally invested in the quality of their produce (and treatment and health of their animals) especially if it is being sold direct locally rather than into some anonymous wholesale system.

For example, when selling locally, we'd hand-pick the best produce whereas the bulk production would be loaded into 30 tonne bulk trailers and sent off to some factory for additional processing. In the U.K. there has been a resurgence of farm-outlets and farmers markets to help local producers reach local customers directly.

People tend to remember details of locally produced products due to its local association and so a bad experience is more likely to cause a direct negative impact on sales the producer understands.

A related benefit of local farmer-direct outlets I overlooked is that there is often much less wastage (more variation in the size and shape of the produce, which reflects what nature provides).

Most bulk wholesale product has to meet minimum and maximum sizes so large percentages of produce (10%+) can be discarded and dumped [1] especially in poor growing years, or because it is the wrong shape [2]. Thankfully there's been recent public, media, and political pressure on the wholesale buyers to reduce this but it is still a significant problem.

Another benefit (for producers) is direct local supply is less susceptible to large wholesale buyers arbitrarily forcing the farm-gate price lower in order to maintain the wholesale pipeline profit margin without regard for the needs of the farmer.

If other industries were as efficient and productive as farms have been over the last 50 years we'd be in a very different world. For example, in the 1970s we had 8 full-time workers and over harvest we'd have another 15 or so (mostly women or students). In 2016 we have 1 full-time and 1 'apprentice' (who is paid about 1/3 of the national minimum wage!) all year round.

So now we're less connected to the local economy and community due to the price pressure.

In the 1970s we were banking enough profit in the good years to carry us through the poor years and still maintain investment in equipment and buildings. Now its a constant battle of attrition to maintain the status-quo.

It never ceases to amaze me that people are willing to pay out ridiculous sums for luxuries like 'smart' phones, TVs, vacations, etc., and yet begrudge paying a reasonable price for a life-supporting essential - especially when it is freshly harvested (as opposed to processed) food.

[1] "Food waste reduction could help feed world's starving" http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28092034

[2] "Wonky fruit and veg" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8587496.stm

Re: At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

#108
post #29

This is super common. My wife and I live in Sonoma County. She operates a floral design business where she only sources locally grown flowers. To our frustration many of her competitors also claim to use local flowers. However, my wife knows nearly all of the local flower growers personally and they tell her that these same competitors give them very little to no business. Instead they buy nearly all of their flowers…

What shop? I'm also in the area and would prefer to know of a shop that I could assign a bit more trust to, since I'm getting married in the next year or so.

My wife's business is called Chloris Floral.

Re: At Tampa Bay farm-to-table restaurants, you’re being fed fiction

#109
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does sound like a "throw the baby out with the bath water" scenario. In theory, GMOs could be more healthy than not GMO. In practice, this has not happened. The objectives instead have been to increase crop yield. The side effects have been to make the plants more toxic in very subtle ways that are hard to track and take decades for people to show symptoms. Maybe in a few more decades we'll see "good" GMOs. It sho…

I think golden rice has been around for at least 20 yrs now.[0] Also serious question, What evidence do we have for "toxic in very subtle ways"? I wasn't aware that this actually exists. [0] http://www.goldenrice.org/

Goldren Rice has made no significant progress even though we have extensive use of Glyphosate-resistant GMOs.

From what I've read the people behind golden rice have yet to release their product for 20 years now, while at the same time in the US we've switched the majority of our largest crop yields to GMO products with wheat being the major holdout.

GMO corn, soybeans and sugar beets aren't being produced for health, they are being pushed to keep the American diet of highly processed sweets and oil cheap.

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