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Vim 8.0 is coming

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Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#341

Post by bch »

pvinis wrote: post #4

I have vim, neovim and emacs (and spacemacs) installed. Right now I'm trying to get into emacs a bit more. What's interesting to me, and the reason I try to keep up to date with the latest changes for all four editors, is that it's been now, what, 25 years (?) since emacs and vim started "competing" and they still are. I guess we could be saying the same in 10 years about firefox and chrome, but it still is amazing i…

> And there is still no clear winner.

You and I are the winners. I've used both Emacs and vi (not vim) for a long time, and switched "major focus" from vi -> Emacs -> vi. That they're such venerable tools and still getting bug fixes, improvements or serious active development is amazing. Long live Emacs. Long live vi.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#342

Post by vbit »

cytzol wrote: post #245
super_mario wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the experience is so much better. The power of command line is intoxicating, and going to GUI tools files like programming with hands tied behind your back and being blindfolded.

I apologise in advance if this sounds dismissive, but: I've tried to use both Vim and Emacs and Neovim and Spacemacs, and every time my pain point is that they're designed for use on the command line rather than as an environment I can switch in and out of. I know this isn't strictly true as both editors can be run as separate applications that you don't quit for weeks, but their roots have persisted into how they're…

I agree with you that session persistence is generally lacking in a most of these tools.

I there an editor/IDE you use that gives you the persistence?

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#343

Post by tingol »

Gonzih wrote: post #222
mightybyte wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not found this to be the case with Spacemacs. Almost everything you need is bound to keystrokes using space as the leader key in the spirit of vim. As a long-time and fairly advanced vim user I recommend Spacemacs highly.

I was also using spacemacs for something like 2 month. After that I just rewrote my vim configuration with what I learned from spacemacs in mind. It's great and clean. But it's still emacs and vim emulation. Nowadays i'm much happier with my vim configuration partially thanks to spacemacs.

Can you share the things you took with you? I'm always interested in spicing up my vim experience.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#344

Post by iamcurious »

kolme wrote: post #315
lottin wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not dead, it's finished. It's got all the features of the original vi, therefore mission accomplished. Software doesn't need to be developed ad-aeternum to remain 'alive'.

> Software doesn't need to be developed ad-aeternum to remain 'alive'. I have to politely but firmly disagree. Software rots if it's not being actively maintained. Underlying API/ABI's get deprecated and eventually dropped, dependencies reach end-of-life and need to be replaced, and so on. Take one program today and try to run it in 10 years, as is. I bet it won't work. I'm talking of course, of any non-trivial piece…

Hey, if you want text in italics use asterixs.

So

     > *Software doesn't need to be developed ad-aeternum to remain 'alive'.*
becomes

> Software doesn't need to be developed ad-aeternum to remain 'alive'.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#345

Post by Syssiphus »

adrusi wrote: post #187
Syssiphus wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonetheless he is right. As far as I remember Vim is based on the code of an editor that was similar to vi, and not vi itself.

Vi is a standard not a specific implementation. There was an original Vi, but since it's a standard unix tool, it got cloned by everyone who ever made a unix clone after it was added to BSD. Vim can be invoked to conform to the vi standard, although usually it only gets used that way when a vim user is on an unfamiliar machine.

Interesting view. I've never seen vi as a standard. But it makes sense.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#346

Post by ZenoArrow »

zxcvcxz wrote: post #338
ZenoArrow wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say anything about Xcode, but I can say that VS hasn't stagnated in that way, every new release seems to bring something worth having.

Is there a CLI mode?

You can perform a number of the functions of VS from the CLI. Were you interested in editing text from the CLI or was there something else you had in mind?

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#347

Post by ska »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #255
ska wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is fair - I mis-read "just like emacs" in your original. Apologies. The extension mechanism really isn't like emacs at all. Package management is a bit more similar (although can you easily add new repositories for nuget?)

> "although can you easily add new repositories for nuget?" Yes. Here's a guide showing how to create a local Nuget repository: http://codurance.com/2015/05/04/creating-a-local-nuget-repos... In the guide you can see this screenshot: http://codurance.com/assets/img/custom/blog/2015-05-01-creat... Which shows you one way to set up the package source. Also worth mentioning Paket, which is a Nuget replacement. In additi…

cool, thanks.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#348

Post by coldtea »

ubertaco wrote: post #210
coldtea wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mice are not a 100% replacement for keyboards. And they're not used as such. They are used as complimentary to keyboards. On the other hand, mice-based GUIs ARE a 100% replacement for CLIs.

>On the other hand, mice-based GUIs ARE a 100% replacement for CLIs. Really? I can automate a pipeline of GUIs? Please show me how I can automatically query a database, take that output, run complex data aggregation over those results combined with past results, send that to a remote server for storage, and email myself the result of the upload, using only a combination of GUIs. (Points deducted for anything that inv…

>Really? I can automate a pipeline of GUIs? Please show me how I can automatically query a database, take that output, run complex data aggregation over those results combined with past results, send that to a remote server for storage, and email myself the result of the upload, using only a combination of GUIs.

Yes, you can, and we have been doing it for decades, e.g. Automator on OS X.

Especially stuff like this is quite easily achievable: "query a database, take that output, run complex data aggregation over those results combined with past results, send that to a remote server for storage, and email myself the result of the upload, using only a combination of GUIs".

Not only that, but pipeline steps can trivially include "run a specific cli program with this as an input and pass the output to another program" (where the previous/after program can be GUI or CLI or a remote service, etc).

Nothing precludes a program with a GUI from taking formal parameters (in whatever format) and being scriptable and pipelined to other such programs.

Whether your question is if this is true for a particular program P, it might, or it might not. That's no different from command line programs which might or might not be pipeline-able between them without intermediaries doing custom scraping, parsing and massaging.

Other scriptable solutions for GUI programs but without GUI-based visual mixing and matching of pipelines include Applescript (and it's Javascript incarnation), Microsoft PowerShell, etc. This are textual based, but not CLI -- you can run them from an IDE for all the extra power that gives.

Also macro recording/playing (available in lots of GUI apps) means you don't have to write anything like "click window at pixel x,y".

And of course in the trivial case, a mice GUI can run any terminal emulator too -- making it a superset of CLI, since the GUI terminal can also include buttons, menus, show images, etc -- which a command line interface cannot -- so it gets the best of both worlds.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#349

Post by inDigiNeous »

ufmace wrote: post #327
inDigiNeous wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that I can customize VIM to suit my needs with modern methods and plugins that bring same kind of functionality found in more modern editors/development envs to the powerhouse that is VIM. For example, these are some of my favorites: https://valloric.github.io/YouCompleteMe/ - Code completion for C/C++ and other languages https://github.com/ctrlpvim/ctrlp.vim - TextMate style ctrl+p fuzzy file finder https:/…

One of the things that keeps me in VS (with VsVim) versus actual Vim for C# is that, for strictly typed languages, the autocomplete can't be beat. AFAIK, Vim autocomplete solutions use a relatively dumb autocomplete, while VS knows the types of everything and shows you all of the things you can access and nothing you can't, including changes that haven't actually been compiled yet. I also think that interactive debug…

I can definitely see the advantage in some cases of good breakpoint debugging with a nice IDE, but personally I like to see realtime what is happening while running the program and changing things around, without having to stop,break,continue and repeat this cycle which stops the flow.

But each to his own. And like answered already, the YouCompleteMe uses clang to provide intelligent autocompletion for C/C++.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#350

Post by blueblob »

yitchelle wrote: post #45
Scarblac wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs ) both vi and Emacs are from 1976. 40 years this year!

To be fair, vim is not strictly vi although they were related. Amazing, I was 1 year old when both were started. How many other software package has such longevity? Unix and its various guises?

> To be fair, vim is not strictly vi although they were related.

In the same sense, the emacs most people use is not the original one. Everyone uses GNU Emacs or Xemacs.

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