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Vim 8.0 is coming

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Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#101

Post by zerr »

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #76
zerr wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike vim or emacs, you don't need to learn VS, Qt Creator, Clion or similar... Mostly, these tools are so intuitive, you just start being productive right after first time.

I disagree. VS, Clion, Eclipse etc. have very different key bindings and differ significantly in the way projects are set up and regarding underlying build mechanisms. These are all things you need to learn to be proficient with a tool. Once you are beyond a superficial use of a tool, a slightly steeper initial learning curve pales in contrast of what you need to reach a certain level.

Well, then you have a GUI - menus/toolbars and after a couple of times use - you just remember the key binding usually specified along the label.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#102

Post by bgribble »

arnsholt wrote: post #18
zwarag wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make a list for things I know would be faster if I knew them and go on. example of my vimimprove.md: - 5 deleting word while curser is in the middle of that word - 2 insert parantesis around the word im on .... when something reaches 10, I google it and write it on a note. Then the first thing I do in the morning is doing that thing 10 times. Before I leave work, I do it again. And of coarse if you use it while wor…

Since I happen to have the answer to both of those: `daw` and `diw` deletes a whole word (unlike `dw` which only deletes forward). They differ in what they do with whitespace; `aw` also trims trailing whitespace (or leading whitespace if there's no trailing) while `iw` leaves the whitespace alone. These two are text objects that can be combined with other commands and quantifiers, so that `yaw` copies a word without…

vim-surround is the bee's knees.

`cs"'` change surrounding double quotes to single

`dst` delete surrounding HTML tag pair

`ysiptp>` wrap this paragraph in

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#103

Post by easytiger »

pjmlp wrote: post #10
pvinis wrote: post #4

I have vim, neovim and emacs (and spacemacs) installed. Right now I'm trying to get into emacs a bit more. What's interesting to me, and the reason I try to keep up to date with the latest changes for all four editors, is that it's been now, what, 25 years (?) since emacs and vim started "competing" and they still are. I guess we could be saying the same in 10 years about firefox and chrome, but it still is amazing i…

I became an heavy Emacs user as I could not find the comfort of Borland IDEs in UNIX, as I started to use it. Since I moved away from C++ into Java and .NET land, never felt the need to use them any longer. And nowadays, with Qt Creator, Clion, xCode, AppCode and VS, I also don't feel the need of them when I need to go back to C++. It is very good to know the basics from plain Vi, because there are still commercial U…

> So for me the question is why there are still people that enjoy working as if their computers are using a 25 year old developer experience.

Because i develop on very expensive hardware on a different continent. I also end up with a decent mental model of my code.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#104

Post by hollander »

userbinator wrote: post #59

Dropped the support for MS-DOS. It was too big to fit in memory. This is a little surprising since the latest version of Emacs still supports MS-DOS[1]. If anything, you'd expect Vim to be the smaller and faster choice but it seems this isn't the case anymore... Then again, I don't really understand the culture of all the customisation/plugins/etc. around text editors; part of the reason why I originally chose Vi(m)…

My head turned around. I read it like Vim loads MS-DOS, and I thought, why would it do that? But then it occured to me dat this means Vim can run under MS-DOS. It's been so long since I've used MS-DOS as OS, I can't imagine it anymore. To me it's just a program that is run by another something.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#105

Post by nachtigall »

erikb wrote: post #19
d33 wrote: post #5

By the way, I have a question: what is the best learning material for intermediate/advanced Vim users? I know quite a lot of Vim features but apart from vimtutorial, I never learned them in any organized way - it was more of a bunch of tricks I found via googling. It would be nice if there was a book (preferably free) on this editor.

My path from intermediate to advanced (and I think there are big differences in vim between these two) was by watching Derek Wyatt ( https://vimeo.com/user1690209/videos ) do his magic, and reading articles here as well as on reddit. From time to time there are cool blog posts with new things to try. It's also worth to read the source of some of the more famous plugins together with looking up stuff on :help. I defin…

I also like http://vimcasts.org/

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#106

Post by ZenoArrow »

oblio wrote: post #52
Nr7 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xcode is 13 years old. Visual Studio is 19 years old. Why would people use them? Because they have evolved, just like Vim & Emacs.

Well, for various reasons both of them don't really have any competition. Xcode, especially, is the IE6 of Mac coding. Only recently some competition has emerged, from Intellij.

I can't say anything about Xcode, but I can say that VS hasn't stagnated in that way, every new release seems to bring something worth having.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#107

Post by super_mario »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #90
super_mario wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the experience is so much better. The power of command line is intoxicating, and going to GUI tools files like programming with hands tied behind your back and being blindfolded.

I used to think like this, but I don't any more. Both command line development tools and IDEs require work to get the most out of them. I used to think command line tools were better because I was more in control, then I realised if I just spent the time learning what IDEs were doing on my behalf I would still have more or less the same amount of control, especially if the IDE is customisable (which the best ones are…

That's decidedly not true. Nor is this about customization of workflows. I am talking about actual unadulterated power to do things you cannot do in an IDE. All IDEs optimize for the average use case. If they do expose a set of advanced commands or transformations, they are hidden deep in the menus and what you can do with them is extremely rigid and limited. At most you have a few dozen commands (you would call them menus) available.

Compare that to couple of thousand commands available on the command line that do all sorts of things and that can be combined in useful, creative and often times unexpected ways. All that in addition to having a programmable command interpreter (i.e. the shell itself) that allows you to automated things you do often. Vim is often described as programming your text transformations, well command line is programming your workflow, but it is also more powerful because of the shear number of commands available.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#108

Post by mightybyte »

Gonzih wrote: post #98
jen20 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to consider looking at Evil mode, which gives you a very close approximation to the vim editing bindings in emacs. I've been using it as part of the spacemacs distribution for a while now and find it to be the best of both worlds.

Evil mode is slower than vim. And also you are in evil mode only during the editing phase. All other menus drop you back to default emacs keybindings and that is very painful experience. I used evil mode for a couple of years and still just went back to vim.

I have not found this to be the case with Spacemacs. Almost everything you need is bound to keystrokes using space as the leader key in the spirit of vim. As a long-time and fairly advanced vim user I recommend Spacemacs highly.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#109

Post by ecthiender »

wodenokoto wrote: post #99
ecthiender wrote: post #3

To list few of the new features: Asynchronous I/O support, channels (Vim can now exchange messages with another process in the background asynchronously), Background jobs, timers, packages for plugins! Wow! This is huge. So many interesting features landing on Vim 8.0.

> Asynchronous I/O support I don't keep myself much up to date on these things, but wasn't this one of the main new features in NeoVim? (then code cleanup, then more language to script in)

Yes it was. And now Vim is getting those features as well.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#110

Post by maxaf »

mightybyte wrote: post #108
Gonzih wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evil mode is slower than vim. And also you are in evil mode only during the editing phase. All other menus drop you back to default emacs keybindings and that is very painful experience. I used evil mode for a couple of years and still just went back to vim.

I have not found this to be the case with Spacemacs. Almost everything you need is bound to keystrokes using space as the leader key in the spirit of vim. As a long-time and fairly advanced vim user I recommend Spacemacs highly.

Don't you feel like you're pushing a square peg into a round hole? Or do you actually find yourself taking advantage of elisp in harmonious combination with Vim's editing UX?
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