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Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

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Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#141

Post by ap22213 »

nathanasmith wrote: post #96
ap22213 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, luck. I'm the child of a single mom of 4 who made $7000 / year, and I'm the first of my extended family to graduate college and the first millionaire (my younger brother got to middle class). Luck is the way that I succeeded. 1st, being born with a high IQ helped. But, that clearly wasn't enough since I had the lowest IQ of my family. And, 40% of my gifted class didn't even graduate high school. 2nd, being born…

I had a comment in mind I was going to go with but when I clicked reply in a new tab, I notice you ninja edited putting in the last line where you came clean and admitted that there was a little something you did that made a difference. My question is this, ignoring your edit, if you say it was all luck based on the 8 points here, am I to conclude that anybody with these advantages would all have the same outcome no…

What I mean (and tried to put into context with my last paragraph) is that for someone below poverty, luck is the most important factor. Moral factors like work ethic don't matter. I've known lots of people with incredible work ethic for whom that quality has not helped. They're still working hard at their retail jobs (or laid off from their hard labor ones) 20 years later. Some work ethic is required, no doubt, but it's much less than most people out of poverty believe. In contrast, if one is well-connected and wealthy to begin with, luck and work ethic aren't important at all. Even being financially irresponsible doesn't have much effect in that case, in my experience.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#142

Post by nostrebored »

hackuser wrote: post #120
nostrebored wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're poor and want to get out you choose interests that make you more wealthy. You choose majors in college that make you more money with better financial security. The starving artist routine is nearly entirely played out by middle to upper middle class people.

> You choose majors in college that make you more money I wonder how many poor kids ever have the opportunity to choose a major in college?

Seeing as I grew up in a poor place with poor people and a large segment of my friends had parents who had never gone to college: a lot of them.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#143

Post by nostrebored »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #117
nostrebored wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're poor and want to get out you choose interests that make you more wealthy. You choose majors in college that make you more money with better financial security. The starving artist routine is nearly entirely played out by middle to upper middle class people.

At the very least you need both opportunity (access to a computer, which was a luxury 15 years ago) and you have to have the aptitude to be able to learn programming. (Remember a lot of these kids in Baltimore have lead poisoning). As well as the free time to do so. (I knew kids in my neighborhood who had to quit school to work full time [and overtime] to help their parents pay rent). Not to mention I don't think tha…

You can force yourself to have any interest. This idea of people as immutable things is completely absurd. My partner worked full time and was homeless and got a degree in CS. You don't need to have any special computer talents to get into CS, a large section of it is just theory.

This idea that programmers have that we must be special or that you have to be smart to be a programmer is ridiculous. I know plenty of dumb people, absurdly illogical dumb people who make it in this industry.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#144

Post by asimuvPR »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #101
whiskers wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be happy to help you out here - I run a Pi based business and we could donate some equipment. My e-mail is in my profile.

Im curious about what exactly you do that can run all on Pi's plus any writeups you have on challenges and successes going all in. I often see people speculate about doing it but rarely actually do it.

I started a couple of years ago teaching people in my social circle about programming. Then doing hands on things with microcontroller boards. I moved to the RPi and have been slowly forming a group of want to be learners (harder than it sounds). Challenges are purely economic. I have a full time job and work long hours. Plus I do side work to pay for everything related to ASIMUV (it's not a startup). Teaching comes naturally and I'm married to a wonderful ESL teacher. Giving the classes is not the hard part. Mostly getting a good place to teach and getting the proper resources is. I recently threw together a website and it's lacking on content. My goal for the next three months is to blog about the experience. You can go to the website and subscribe to the mailing list. It's not commercial and it's aimed at keeping people up to date.

I think the reason don't do it more often is because life gets in the way. It's hard to work long hours and then sit down to do something else. But thankfully I've been blessed with lots of energy! :)

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#145

Post by IkmoIkmo »

superuser2 wrote: post #88
galfarragem wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To raise kids, money beyond a low threshold is not relevant, providing a good education is. Money, or better, social capital gets importance when these kids become young adults and have chosen career paths with less demand.

>money beyond a low threshold is not relevant, providing a good education is. Except that a good education is usually gated behind 1) high property values and property taxes in a suburban neighborhood, 2) high tuition, or 3) extremely competitive tests/lotteries to get into the small handful of good schools in failing urban districts. Not everyone has a parent who can afford to be away from work long enough to be an…

Absolutely, accessibility is very much linked to money. But usability of an education that's provided to you is, too.

For example, time spent working. I recall every vacation, every weekend and at least 1-2 mon-fri days or nights working, to help pay my dad's bills, pay for college, or just pay for things my parents couldn't help me out with even though I lived with them as an 18 yo, like medical insurance. There was never any downtime for me where I had a full weekend off, or a spring break to wind down after a few months of school. Barely any time was available to simply relax, have fun, remove stress or hell have time for my 'identity project'. Being ill for a day and missing a day of school work would mess everything up because I couldn't skip work, and I had no time spare in a given week as a buffer to 'catch up' up on stuff. It's a constant level of stress, which affects your studies, too. I was actually one of the lucky ones who lived in a nice neighbourhood where the median person had 5x our household income with free state subsidised education, it was great. But even then, I couldn't make full use of it like I could've if we had more disposable income. There are a lot of indirect factors, work was just one of them.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#146

Post by cheez »

nostrebored wrote: post #87
nommm-nommm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had interests that lead you to financial security and an ability to pursue said interests - that's just plain dumb luck. I'm not saying that you did not work hard, I'm sure you did. I am saying that plenty of people work just as hard but stay in poverty.

When you're poor and want to get out you choose interests that make you more wealthy. You choose majors in college that make you more money with better financial security. The starving artist routine is nearly entirely played out by middle to upper middle class people.

This is obviously someone who has never dealt with actual poverty.

Can you imagine... Not even knowing you can have interests.

Not that you can choose interests.

Not even believing that you can have something to be interested in.

Let that sink in

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#147

Post by pjmorris »

ruairidhwm wrote: post #115
pjmorris wrote: post #77

Programming was my identity project. I suppose it still is. I grew up US rural South poor. My childhood started well, but went down hill to the point that, by high school, my single mom was raising three kids in a 2 bedroom single-wide trailer. I aced standardized tests, but my initial idea of what to do after high school was to keep my dishwasher job. Mom, the guidance counselors and our support system weren't of mu…

Very impressive, I hope things are working out for you :)

Thanks. Some days better, some days worse, the end of the story has yet to be written.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#148

Post by stretchwithme »

hackuser wrote: post #109
stretchwithme wrote: post #106

My identity project was not being poor. So I was a cashier and a filed bank teller. I delivered newspapers. I washed cars and delivered tires and packages. I washed windows and cleaned doctors offices. Then eventually went to college and got into software development. It baffles me when some people are surprised that its possible to work your way out of poverty. That's what most sane people do when they have the oppo…

It's an interesting and often-repeated theory, but the data is overwhelming: People born in poor environments do much worse than those born in wealthier environments. The massive difference in resources seems like a place to start. Compare the percentage of kids who get into college from poor urban public schools, where many kids aren't even functionally literate and classes lack books, and wealthy suburban public sc…

I would say that those born into poor cultures do poorly.

Those cultures that are no longer poor were more conducive to escaping poverty.

The evidence is compelling in places that dropped government control of everything and millions of people have moved out of poverty in just a generation or two.

China is a good example. Everybody started out poor but they still had an ethic or working hard, saving for the future and education.

Other people are born with the same opportunities but not the same values and don't take advantage of those opportunities.

Its not the poor neighborhood. Its the poor ideas in people's heads. Change that and the neighborhood changes too.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#149

Post by eropple »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #113
eropple wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, success. I started being much more willing to believe the projection of confidence that I had learned to do in order to sell myself as capable and competent once I realized that I was coming in above the level promised by that projection in the first place. It really is "fake it 'til you make it." But in my experience that does go away, a lot, once you can really say to yourself that you've made it (even just…

But, success is actually a prerequisite for imposter syndrome. It's the haunting feeling that you don't deserve that success and that you will be somehow "discovered". One thing I can relate to though is working really hard for fear of underperforming or proving to be under qualified, only to learn later that others felt I was performing exceedingly well.

Success is a prerequisite, but what I was trying to say is that sustained success--what I use to validate that, no, really, I am walking my talk--can drive it away.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#150

Post by init »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #40
init wrote: post #32

I'm one of those poor kids who got out. My identity project was programming. An friend gave me a an old noisy Pentium II that became my best friend. I spent countless hours, day and night, learning to program. Skipped prom to program, dodged sports in high school, never attended parties. Programming was my identity. I started working before starting college. The prohibitive cost of college made me drop out to focus o…

You should definitely consider the University of London International programme [1]. It's a distance learning course thats totally compatible with working at the same time, costs less than $8000 for the 3-year degree, and UK degrees are usually counted as equivalent to US degrees with regards to employment or further study. I'm just completing my first year of the course now. I've studied at some pretty good schools,…

Thanks for this. I will check it out
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