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Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

theatlantic.com

71–80 of 168 posts

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing. I had no idea something like this existed. As someone who has done online learning in the past (Academy of Art University, Udacity, Coursera), this seems like something right up my alley. $8000/year is extremely reasonable. Some quick questions: Are there any extra fees? How many classes in first/second/third year? Are they separated by semester or quarter? Does this include Genera…

My advice is to not sweat it. If you feel like you need to spend $8000/year to cure your imposter syndrome I have news for you: it won't go away. It has nothing to do with your credentials.

Hey thanks for that. I am currently studying algorithms on my own for interest and interviews. My only concern is the amount of doors that may open for me with a degree.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#72
post #32

I'm one of those poor kids who got out. My identity project was programming. An friend gave me a an old noisy Pentium II that became my best friend. I spent countless hours, day and night, learning to program. Skipped prom to program, dodged sports in high school, never attended parties. Programming was my identity. I started working before starting college. The prohibitive cost of college made me drop out to focus o…

College doesn't "cure" imposter syndrome. I'm not sure what does.

Exactly. I have a MS degree and am gratefully enjoying an ongoing, successful 25+ year career -- and have wrestled with Imposter Syndrome most every day of it.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To raise kids, money beyond a low threshold is not relevant, providing a good education is. Money, or better, social capital gets importance when these kids become young adults and have chosen career paths with less demand.

I've done well without "an education". I think it's probably more complex than that.

Could it be that you provided your own education? If so, I would say most are not organized or visionary enough to do the same thing.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#75
Hidden in this article is the assumption that the 25 year old working at chick-fil-a is beyond saving, so we must try to do better with future generations.

That's really sad for me. That guy is still a kid, from where I sit. And he will likely be doing work that bores him to tears for the next 50 years.

We should be talking about fixing that. Figuring out a way to send some smart, creative, in poverty, 30 year olds to four year college for free.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#76

Some of the most famous self-made wealthy individuals in the UK were from poor backgrounds of varying degree. I remember more than one stating that they felt if they wanted to escape that world, they had to make their own luck, grab every opportunity, be ready to change direction if fortuitous winds prevail, and essentially be there in body and mind to really give it a go. In some cases they literally start with noth…

There's an insane amount of survivor bias in those stories. How many people put made equivalent effort but were broken by some random circumstance, or saved by outright luck or family connections?

It happens in technology too. I'm not sure how many people remember Dragon Dictate, but they were well ahead of the game in voice recognition in the 90s and 00s.

Then they made a bad mistake and got into a marketing partnership with individuals they would have been better off avoiding. This not only killed their business, it also meant they no longer own their own IP, which is currently wasting away in business limbo.

That's the point of the OP. Grit will only get you so far.

It's not about individual hero stories, it's about the probability of success for equivalent effort for entire populations, and how vulnerable they are to the effects of a single bad mistake.

That's where you can see the negative effects of some backgrounds, and the positive effects of others, most clearly.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#77
Programming was my identity project. I suppose it still is. I grew up US rural South poor. My childhood started well, but went down hill to the point that, by high school, my single mom was raising three kids in a 2 bedroom single-wide trailer. I aced standardized tests, but my initial idea of what to do after high school was to keep my dishwasher job. Mom, the guidance counselors and our support system weren't of much help. Luckily, mom taught us about reading and libraries, and, luckily, the local community college offered scholarships to the top 10% of local high school students if they stuck around. CC was a nice change of pace from doing dishes, and connected me to programming, which led to a state school, a BSCS, a career, an MSCS, and, shortly, a PhD. My main excuse for the PhD is to be able to give back as I've been given to. The identity project was important, and not something I'd have been able to afford without help from society. I think I've paid much more in taxes as a developer than I'd have as a dishwasher/cook, so society's 'hand up' wasn't just a 'hand out'. I'm sure not everyone can follow the same path, but I'm sure glad the path was there, and I'm hopeful we'll see fit to leave paths like it out there.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#78

Programming was my identity project. I suppose it still is. I grew up US rural South poor. My childhood started well, but went down hill to the point that, by high school, my single mom was raising three kids in a 2 bedroom single-wide trailer. I aced standardized tests, but my initial idea of what to do after high school was to keep my dishwasher job. Mom, the guidance counselors and our support system weren't of mu…

Thank you for sharing this.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#79
post #3

Statistics and chances. Some poor kids are bound to thrive eventually -- and chances make sure those kids have some things that other poor kids don't (a mentor in their life, a parent who isn't working 2 jobs or drinking but can spend some time with them, live in a good school district, their curiousness wasn't beaten out of them by bad early experiences, looks enabling them to be taken for better than other poor kid…

Yep, luck.

I'm the child of a single mom of 4 who made $7000 / year, and I'm the first of my extended family to graduate college and the first millionaire (my younger brother got to middle class). Luck is the way that I succeeded.

1st, being born with a high IQ helped. But, that clearly wasn't enough since I had the lowest IQ of my family. And, 40% of my gifted class didn't even graduate high school.

2nd, being born with a personable and friendly demeanor helped a lot, probably more than my intelligence. However, by having intelligence, I was better able to make good choices of friends.

3rd, being born with height potential was huge. It's been clear to me that people in powerful positions are much taller than average.

4th, being born with symmetric features and attractiveness was important. Again, this attribute helps in making and keeping relationships. And, when people think of someone, they often think of me first.

5th, being cautious and risk adverse was hugely important. I was involved with the gangs and criminal activity like many of my peers, but I was extremely careful about what things that I would do. Also, many of my peers ended up having kids in their teens, which was very devastating. Many became addicted to drugs and died. Many died of accidents and suicide. Of my friends, over 15 died before I was 25 (I lost count).

6th, having a mentor was good for me in making good life choices. A retired, highly educated engineer took me under her wing and mentored me in my late teens. Before I met her, I had not even considered going to college. I looked forward to being a manager at a retail store. Even though I was in the honors and gifted program and ranked #11 out of my class, I never once received any college guidance from my school. So, her help was amazingly helpful.

7th, (sorry, this is getting long), living at a time when college was affordable and accessible was critical. I went to college in the 90s when tuition was under $2500 a semester, and I was accepted with many marks on my academic record. Even though I wasted time in college, I was able to graduate with only $40k in debt.

8th, picking the right major was extremely important. I floundered around for a couple years at college and almost dropped out. Then, I had a roommate who turned me on to computers (I never had one, since they were very expensive). I took a couple programming classes and found it to be a creative outlet. And, at the time, graduates were making $30-45k, which seemed great to me.

But, looking back on it all, it was mostly luck. I wish I could say that I had some part in it, but really, I didn't.

The only very important (maybe most important) decisions that I made didn't happen until I was over 30. I moved to a wealthy area and I married up. Without doing those things, it would have been much much harder to gain access to connections and capital.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#80

Some of the most famous self-made wealthy individuals in the UK were from poor backgrounds of varying degree. I remember more than one stating that they felt if they wanted to escape that world, they had to make their own luck, grab every opportunity, be ready to change direction if fortuitous winds prevail, and essentially be there in body and mind to really give it a go. In some cases they literally start with noth…

Yes, it's something of a selection problem.

The assumption behind this belief set is that they were the select few who could do this. There is an alternative hypothesis that out of the large number of people with poor background who did this, they were the few somewhat randomly selected to succeed.

Certainly if you look at their biographies there seems to be a consistent element of right person in right place at right time - which suggests that there might be a lot more 'right people' than get lucky.

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