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The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

teslamotors.com

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Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#101

Post by forgetsusername »

pluma wrote: post #92
Reason077 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the people in Beijing buying Teslas would rather buy a BMW or Audi anyways if they could get the license plates for them Really? I can't imagine anyone who's actually driven a Tesla wanting to go back to an ICE vehicle. People aren't buying Teslas because they're greener or cheaper to operate or even because of government incentives (although those are additional, feel-good benefits). They're buying them because they…

Let's not kid ourselves: right now people are buying Teslas for the same reason they're buying high-end Apple products. They're well-made, sure, but they're foremost a luxury and status symbol. They're better than other status symbols because they actually have functional value that comes close to their market value, but they're still a status symbol. However it seems that Tesla is actually trying to reduce its price…

>They're well-made, sure, but they're foremost a luxury and status symbol.

Not sure why this opinion is downvoted, but I agree.

The Model S is quite an engineering feat, particularly the D. But the Model 3? There are quite a few cars in that segment that have the performance and "luxury" of that car for cheaper. Being electric (and a Tesla) is the only selling point, and I don't value it that much.

I want an electric car as a commuter; something that I can go back and forth to work in every day, and charge at night. A high-torque, RWD electric car is a tough sell for the winters we get here, especially at the ~$50,000 CDN it will likely cost.

Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#102

Post by lttlrck »

MertsA wrote: post #60
gambiting wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are really not as bad as you think. Even in brand new cars you can replace the brakes, suspension, wishbones, dampers, steering column, oil pans, all filters, oil&fuel pumps, service the air conditioning unit and I am reasonably certain you could do full engine maintenance as well. Most importantly, parts for any new vehicle are publicly available, be it a Fiat 500 or a Mercedes S-Class. On the other hand, Tes…

>Even in brand new cars you can replace the brakes Just as a note, that's not always true. Replacing brake pads is one thing, but if you need to take the caliper off for service or air gets into the ABS system, you may find yourself unable to properly bleed the brakes without access to the tools needed to get the ECU to bleed the ABS system. Depending on the car there really might not be any feasible way to complete…

What car for example? Flushing the brakes is easy low risk maintenance - if there is a manufacturer that's actively blocking flushing via ECU I would like to avoid them.

Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#103

Post by mikeash »

huuu wrote: post #44
Yaggo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because why would you use a lot of energy for sensors, insane mode, automatic doors, displays, computers, and so on? Signals electronics (displays, sensors, etc) use so little energy compared to power electronics (the drivetrain system) that it doesn't really matter.

It does matter. 1 W * 1,000,000 cars is still 1 MW. It's like saying a javascript file of 1MB is ok because there are images of 10MB on the same page.

It's more like saying that if you somehow turned off all the fancy electronics, you'd add maybe half a mile to the car's 200+ mile range.

Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#104

Post by green7ea »

sudhirj wrote: post #9
tajen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lifetime of most cars is 14-20 years (half of it on the second-hand market). Tesla's is 8 years, if I understand. It makes their cars twice as expensive in effect.

8 years for the battery or the car? The batteries are replacable in a minute or so.

The batteries are the single biggest cost in an electric car. The rest is all much cheaper than a conventional car. Replacing a your batteries would be a significant cost compared to buying a new car. It might even be 1/3 of the new ticket price.

Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#105

Post by jeremy7600 »

MertsA wrote: post #60
gambiting wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are really not as bad as you think. Even in brand new cars you can replace the brakes, suspension, wishbones, dampers, steering column, oil pans, all filters, oil&fuel pumps, service the air conditioning unit and I am reasonably certain you could do full engine maintenance as well. Most importantly, parts for any new vehicle are publicly available, be it a Fiat 500 or a Mercedes S-Class. On the other hand, Tes…

>Even in brand new cars you can replace the brakes Just as a note, that's not always true. Replacing brake pads is one thing, but if you need to take the caliper off for service or air gets into the ABS system, you may find yourself unable to properly bleed the brakes without access to the tools needed to get the ECU to bleed the ABS system. Depending on the car there really might not be any feasible way to complete…

How do you get air into a closed system? Taking a caliper off does nothing to introduce air into the system. Taking a caliper off is how you replace the pads. (still trying to square how you think it's ok to replace pads but not take a caliper off, but it may come down to interpretation, to me, taking a caliper off is not the same as replacing a caliper, since the caliper is attached to the car and needs to be detached (taken off) to swap pads (and rotors for that matter)). During the course of the average brake job, the only items in need of replacement are the pads and the rotors. Calipers only if they are sticking or in need of an upgrade. Changing brakes is not out of the realm of possibility for 99% of car owners.

I would argue any suspension parts are user servicable, engines too. The computer doesn't car if you work on the car. Those plastic covers are just to make it look good. Now diagnostics are definitely different. But you can buy a service guide, a scan-tool, and maybe a multi-meter, and you can diagnose any modern car. You could probably fix them too. The addition of the computer has not changed the makeup of a cars engine, just the addition of sensors.

I still don't see why it would have to go to a dealer. Anything related to programming control modules? Are we tuning the car or repairing it?

Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#106

Post by forgetsusername »

agumonkey wrote: post #21
madads wrote: post #2

As he says in short the masterplan is to: "Build sports car. Use that money to build an affordable car. Use that money to build an even more affordable car. While doing above, also provide zero emission electric power generation options. Don't tell anyone."

Trying not to be too much of a fan boy I smiled at the fact that, on its way to develop EV market recognition and infrastructure they made cars that topped anything else in safety and speed. 'if you want to have EV, all you have to do is buy the best cars we just made' kind of.

>that topped anything else in safety and speed.

In what sense? Look at European NCAP safety ratings; the Model S is great, but certainly didn't "top anything else". There are quite a few cars with better overall safety ratings.

And speed? Good acceleration, sure. But not faster than anything else. Top speed either. Where does this myth originate?

Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#107

Post by jzwinck »

arethuza wrote: post #98
jacquesm wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're buying them because they're better cars. Faster, quieter, more fun to drive, filled with the latest technology. EV's are great for a number of use cases but they are not even close to a viable option for many uses of ICE's at the present. No doubt this will change but even if a Tesla is a 'better car' than my daily driver 'Faster', 'Quieter', 'more fun to drive' and 'filled with the latest technology' do no…

Biggest problem for me with electric cars is the simple fact that I live in a flat - a very nice flat in a very nice European city [1]. Our car lives on the quiet street outside - so how, in the foreseeable future, would I get an electric car charged? NB Is anyone looking into solving this particular problem - because it's one that a lot of people will face. 1 - I mention this as it is inconceivable to me that I woul…

In London I had a neighbor with an electric car. It was parked on the street and plugged in using a long cord to its owner's building. Seemed to work ok, though it wasn't pretty. Plenty of street crime and vandals around, somehow they didn't seem to bother.

Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#108

Post by ksherlock »

nomercy400 wrote: post #52
dionidium wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One minor counter to this is that you shouldn't get too caught up in the hype about this being a mass-produced car. HN and tech journalism is a bit of a bubble. Normal people do not spend $35-40k on a car. We're still talking about a high-end vehicle. Nobody driving a Model 3 is going to be devastated when it needs to go in the shop.

These EV cars are not subsidized? I expect some discounts on these petrol-less cars.

The federal tax credit phases out after the manufacturer has sold 200,000 qualifying vehicles.

Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#109

Post by [deleted] »

dionidium wrote: post #49
agf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware of that. My point was it's in a range in which a very large number of cars are sold; claiming this price range means it's not going to be "mass-produced" is stretching it.

Since you've left this comment a couple times I'll just point out that that wasn't at all my point.

[deleted]

Re: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (2006)

#110

Post by maratd »

dionidium wrote: post #49
agf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware of that. My point was it's in a range in which a very large number of cars are sold; claiming this price range means it's not going to be "mass-produced" is stretching it.

Since you've left this comment a couple times I'll just point out that that wasn't at all my point.

I think rather than going back and forth, perhaps someone should explain the difference between average and median?
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